Serious-
Could you flowchart that process please?

__________________

WE DON"T WANT IT FIXED. (usually) Most women want you to shut up and listen, just sit there and pay attention. We are not your Auto, not your stereo, your computer. Don't try to make it better just sit there and let us know you're listening. Men only talk about problems so someone else will fix it, women talk about problems so they can figure out their own way to fix it. Shifting a car out of neutral is always shifting out of neutral, Women are more like an automatic Trans, you just put the bastard in Drive and sit back and watch where it takes you, Men are like a manual, keep your hand on the stick(and don't forget the clutch), stay away from the gas, and manipulate every 10 MPH faster or slower you go.

Just my views

Kyttn

__________________
-Seems we got here just in the nick of time. Whats that make us?
--Big damn heros Sir.
-Ain't we just.

EUREKA !!!
I think we found it!

Don’t have a clue to what it is or what to do with it, …………..but this has the feel of at least being a large part of the mystery.
I kind of feel like this could be the DNA double helix of relationships.

__________________

WE DON"T WANT IT FIXED. (usually)<< But we're raised to fix things! And we're raised by women!

Most women want you to shut up and listen, just sit there and pay attention.<< Have you ever seen a man that you respect sit there and take it?

keep your hand on the stick<<D :yellghst:

You must be confused, Seriousfun. maybe you're raised to fix objects, but it's harder to fix people. I was raised by my dad and can fix a car, or damn near anything else but I know when to shut up......at least when it comes to real life, in here I probably talk too much.

Sit there and take what? my bitching, complaining groaning and bellyacheing? damn right. but of course I am one helluva scary bitch...... most people don't cross me >)
it's not like I'm swinging with a baseball bat.

Kyttn

__________________
-Seems we got here just in the nick of time. Whats that make us?
--Big damn heros Sir.
-Ain't we just.

Yes, I am confused. Often!

It might or might not be harder to fix people than objects. People can be fixed with a look, a touch, a smell, even a thought.

My own personal philosophy, however, is that we can't fix anything or anyone except by living our life the way we want the world to be.

Men feel things deeper, and longer, than women. Controversial? Every study on the subject supports this. The yak yak yak at us about everything, coupled with the bitterness when our attempts to respond in the way that we are taught and wired, chips away at any relationship. Women often forget that they are in a 2-way, not a 1-way, relationship and what you put out into the universe (whether in love or war) comes right back atcha, tenfold.

It took me too many years to figure out that a man who sits there and takes the bitching, complaining groaning and bellyacheing is never respected by a woman. And a woman who dishes this out without thinking of the consequences is never respected. We have to use these tools for good, not evil.

And, swing away, Kyttn, I'm not afraid of you!

Holy smokes, I didn't mean to incite a heated genderal debate. I was in essence just hoping for the kind of thing Jenna and Sn offered. Truth is, the question wasn't really what does she mean, it should have been am I tired enough to turn away. I was exasperated and angry. We've gotten back on track, but oddly enough with no answers to speak of. I'm not an argumentive person, I was trying to make sense of a sudden drastic change..... logic is NOT my friend sometimes. Nothing simply meant she was dealing with a lot and wasn't in any shape to cope and discuss it with me because she knew I'd freak.... sometimes those damn trees just get in the way.

__________________
As to marriage or celibacy, let a man take which course he will. He will be sure to repent - Socrates

Love is not looking in each other's eyes, but looking together in the same direction - Antoine De Saint-Exupery

Big-bear, I'm doing my best to stay on topic and not take over your thread. The -sometimes heated- exchange of ideas is one of my favourite bits about Pixies.

Serious Fun: maybe you should be...... >grin<

__________________
-Seems we got here just in the nick of time. Whats that make us?
--Big damn heros Sir.
-Ain't we just.

Serious Fun "">>>>>It might or might not be harder to fix people than objects. People can be fixed with a look, a touch, a smell, even a thought. <<<<<" but it takes the same things so send someone over the edge.

__________________
-Seems we got here just in the nick of time. Whats that make us?
--Big damn heros Sir.
-Ain't we just.

BigBear: I sympathize with you (been there...), and I don't mean to hijack your thread; I'm tryin' to keep it on-topic.

I have never had a great experience with a counselor, but it seems like a third-person opinion might help you understand what she is not saying, and help her understand what you're not hearing. Until you both take a step up in understanding, the relationship will slowly drain with each exchange.

And Kyttn, I just think you need a spankin'

__________________
seriousfun

SeriousFun I really think my wife is more equipped to "spank" me. But I always though a good beating with a buggy-whip would benefit you immensely. (Rhett Butler, Gone with the Wind for those who recognize the idea)

Southernly always,

Kyttn

__________________
-Seems we got here just in the nick of time. Whats that make us?
--Big damn heros Sir.
-Ain't we just.

Wading back in . . . I did like the mirroring advice. I'm a solitary soul and would rather reply "nothing" when asked if something is wrong. I think a lot. Spend a lot of time writing. These avenues are how I figure out things.

Men in my life have tried to yell at me to talk and I retreat. If someone sat down calmly with me, I'd be more willing to discuss things.

"What's wrong?" can be taken many different ways, depending on the tone of voice used.

BigBear57 - If you want it set right then give it a shot. Just keep yourself relaxed (no matter how crazy it gets) and help her to start talking.

Steph said "calmly" and that's always been key for me.

Everyone's different so it's hard to say what'll happen.

The hardest part for me is keeping my cool - this kind of thing usually hurts. If the hurt gets bad enough a simple "Babe, this hurts" statement usually helps her to soften it a bit.

Have you thought she is depressed about something ... or that she needs something and yet doesn't know what it is, So she might answer nothing because she doesn't knowwhat is wrong herselff......

__________________
when life hand you an orange make SCREW DRIVERS

Oh well I've tried a calm talk and she won't stay calm. She's so defensive it bites. My time keeps getting less and less and it's not me so....... I give up. I just don't think it'll smooth over this time. I know I'm no bully or bad guy, damnit I won't be treated like one just to please anybody. When understanding and simple talk goes awry..... folks Papa always said there's another rooster in that there henhouse, and I don't do 2nd fiddle any more.

__________________
As to marriage or celibacy, let a man take which course he will. He will be sure to repent - Socrates

Love is not looking in each other's eyes, but looking together in the same direction - Antoine De Saint-Exupery