I still am standing by the fact that he should be honest, explore all options. Not saying he shouldn't leave...am saying another person should not facilitate that.

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Susan

SuzyQ---Whether you know it or not,there are all different kinds of alcoholism.I'm a recovering alcoholic(over 12yrs)and I never physically abused
my wife or daughters & never missed a day at work(from alcohol)Some alcoholics should be left.Thankfully,my wife weighed,the good versus the bad
& decided that I was worth staying with.I'm sorry,but I hate steriotypes,&
you hit a sore spot! Irish

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Irish---Better to be dead & cool,then alive & uncool!
(Harley Davidson & the Marlboro Man)

Actually, why do so many marriages collapse nowdays? Because there is no longer any stigma associated with divorce. Oh, you don't like her anymore? Okay, go find a new one. There's no expectation put on people to stick it out and make it work. Instant gratification is the flavor of the day. And lives are torn apart and wrecked and tossed aside in the drive for a thrill.

Real love isn't thrilling unless you make it thrilling. Love takes work and dedication.

And honestly, people are miserable because they don't stick to things. They don't work to keep what they have, they just want bigger, better, faster, harder. There is always a bigger fish.

Our parents and grandparents were not always wrong. And some of their ideals, like those of dedication and sticking with it, are true, noble, worthy ideals that should not be lost. Just because they are our parent's ideals doesn't make them wrong or bad. We are nto children anymore, to rebel simply on principle, even against things that are good and should be kept.

Do you not care that one day he will realize what he has done? Do you not care that one day, he must face this again when the infatuation is gone again? Do you WANT him to one day realize that he is just reliving the same pattern over and over and to be miserable? Care enough to be honest, care enough to stand and tell him that it's not taht simple. Instant gratification never lasts.

Real, genuine love, lasts. Infatuation is just fun, and only for a while.

Sorry Irish, didn't mean to...I know lots of recovering alcoholics..who have saved their marraige...Forgive me, hon.

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Susan

Sweetlady: Divorce has never been mentioned in our house...murder maybe!

And before you all condem me for this...is a joke!

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Susan

To acuse people of not caring simply cause they do not publicly condemn someone is ludacris. Do you know what happens to people who need support and advice and all they get is bitched at and told how wrong they are????? I do and I had to make a post about it a week ago.

Do you think it truly helps the underlying cause/ aspects of the situation? I am not going to argue with you because I have seen that many of your posts have this similar tone, so it's obviously just that you have a very different opinion than I do about how people should be treated. You don't know him or anyone else here well enough to tell them that you know what the only answer is. We all offer suggestions and opinions but most know that the most important thing is to keep communication open for people here and just chewing people out does not facilitate that. A public chastising closes people down and causes them to feel defensive or stop talking. It's why in general the people here avoid it. And that's why people turn to us for help.

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The practice of putting women on pedestals began to die out when it was discovered that they could give orders better from there.~ Betty Grable

If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
One man's dream is another man's nightmare~~~~> §¤ Lilith ¤§
~>My Scribbles<~
==>Gone Shopping<== ~Just a Quickie~ *~A Celebration Vacation~* ~Surprises~ Sleeping With the Window Open
What Did You Do Today? Self Defense Class ~Short Sweet Snippets~ § Summer Spin § Story Challenge Submission Pajamas

SuzyQ---No need to be sorry.I just wanted to set the record straight,because
,so many,people,think that everyone is the same.I had to go to,State mandated,AA meetings.You wouldn't believe,the different types,of people!
I have,also,been to many ,90day,VA & private programs.Many people,picture
a dishevaled(sp?)man,needing a shave,in a trenchcoat,with,a bottle,in a paper bag.Wrong!There are Priests,lawyers,housewives,etc.It affects ALL
walks of life! Irish

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Irish---Better to be dead & cool,then alive & uncool!
(Harley Davidson & the Marlboro Man)

Okay. Only happy agreeing opinions are acceptable. Check.

I agree that another partner should never be the reason for leaving. However, another partner might very well end up being the final straw that prompts one to get out of a failed marriage. I see these as two very different cases.

But, back to the point.....(happy to talk about love, life, divorce and what is or isn't allowed around here...but don't wanna on this guy's dime)

I think you've got two different questions to answer before this conversation happens. The first is "what do I tell her" and the other is "how do I tell her." Two different things. What you tell her should be honest. I have to believe that's always best.

But it's just as important to tell her gently. And what the hell do I mean by that? Allow me to illustrate with an example from my family (one of the things a big, complicated soap opera of a family is useful for):

My Dad's second marriage was ending. It needed to end. Counciling wasn't gonna help. Trying harder wasn't going to help. These two people were making each other miserable....maybe they should never have gotten married, but that was beside the point. They definately needed to get divorced. But my step-monster was a hateful kinda person. She wanted to hurt my father on her way out the door....don't know why....but she did it. And she did it with a version of the truth. I won't include all of it, but he really had been better not knowing all the things she'd done in the time they'd been together. The one thing that strikes me as relevant here is that she told him she'd never been faithful in all the time they'd been maried. 10 years, and she'd always had something on the side.

She said it to hurt him. And it did. It devistated him. And it was true. I don't think it had to be said. I think she owed it to him to let him know she was moving in with someone else....but not that he was better in bed, made her feel wonderful, made her feel the time she spend with Dad was wasted life. She could have chosen to keep the details to herself.

So I agree with all and sundry above...if this has to happen (and I'm not going one way or the other on that one)....it has to be honest. But you owe this woman more than that. You owe her gentleness. While you can't lie about the fact that you're suddenly going to be involved with another woman (especially as you have, if I remember rightly, kids from the previous relationship), don't make that the centerpoint of your departure. It shouldn't be, if it's just highlighted what were already fatal flaws.

Don't get me wrong, there's no way to do this without hurting her. Unless she's secretly been looking for a way to tell you the same thing, you're gonna hurt her. Insofar as hurting people is bad, you're gonna be the bad guy. But if you're convinced that it has to be done, then you have to look on it as surgury rather than assault. Do as little harm as necessary. If the point is that you want to be the best person/father you can be, and that you can't be that in this marriage...tell her that. It's not a judgement of her, you're not saying she's a bad person, it's just not working out. If you have to do it, then be a man about it. Take your hits. Deal with the fact that she's gonna be angry. Deal with the fact that she may have every right to be angry at you. Don't rise to it. Just weather the storm until it comes time to deal with the details. If you've got kids together, you're always going to be a part of each other's lives...like it or not. It's better for everyone, especially the kids, if the break can be kept from getting ugly and personally hurtful.

I've had a child's eye view of many divorces, one way and another. And while I don't regret any one of them, I do believe divorce is necessary for a lot of different reasons...including incompatability, I appreciate fully that some are worse than others. And what yours will be like will depend a lot on how you handle this first step.

Peace to you and yours, however you wind up handling it.

G

You need to look at the real world, not an illusion.

My wife comes from a culture with a far more traditional view of marriage. She used to be horrified at the amount of divorce she saw here. However, as the years have gone by she's come to see that it works better than what she was used to.

Yes, divorce is common here. There's nobody here we know with a working marriage that's lasted longer than ours. (There are some people we have drifted out of contact with that very well might still be married.) However, looking over her relatives--there's only one divorce. However, there's also only one working marriage. There's one who is living with someone other than their spouse (contrary to the law there, he could go to jail for it.)
What's better--to divorce and find someone you can be happy with, or to remain in a failed marrriage and ensure that neither of you are happy?

I was hoping someone would notice that I said there was no easy way out...this I know from nearly 30 years of my own marriage, & that nearly all our friends have been thru divorces...some several times. Some marriages just can't be saved, & it's hard to stay & just as hard to go...& while the truth should never be used as a weopon,(as GingerV described in her dad's case) I can say that the only way my own marriage has lasted this long is that we always were able to face the harsh truths about ourselves when push came to shove...

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Plug me into somethin'

If the theory does not conform to the facts, then the facts must be discarded.

No good deed ever goes unpunished

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, & beat you with experience.

I haven't posted to this thread, mainly because I gave my thoughts on his previous one, but I have to say that I don't think it's ever been said here at pixies that you have to just give happy agreeing opinions, just that you don't go slamming away at people ....

You've made some very good points Sweetlady, however if the points are made in the form of an attack, then they won't reach their mark. I think if you honestly read the various other posts to this thread you will see that the opinions expressed are not all happy and agreeing ones, but they do recognize that this man is the one who has to live his life and deal with the consequences of his decisions.

Personally, I'd like to see all marriages work out, but I know it is not always possible, and when a person asks for some helpful advise like this, we don't necessarily know all of what went on before to bring him to this request.

In my own life, my parents were married for 27 years, all of them that I remember were horrendous, a lot of yelling and fighting, none of it physical, but left scars in all of our lives ... my mother finally met a good man, when they met they both were "married" though both were also "separated" (though not officially) ... to my knowledge, though they fell in love, they didn't have sex while still married to their existing partners, but still most would view their relationship as "cheating". When my stepfather died a few years ago, the 2 of them had been together for just over 27 years as well - all of them happy, all of them committed and not necessarily easy. Their marriage is the one I look to when I try to define a "happy marriage" ... Just because a person ends up leaving a marriage, doesn't mean the decision was the wrong one. Sometimes it is the only viable decision and though in this case we have only been given some of the details, it doesn't mean we can assume we know the entire situation that has brought him to ask for advise.

#1, everytime.

Whatever you do you're going to hurt someone, you'd may as well face up to your responsibilities and tell her the whole situation - she'll end up finding out sooner or later anyway, and at least you will keep some dignity and respect if you're a man about it.

When you tell her she's going to be upset and she's going to say hurtful things and I suggest that you take it, rather than trying to defend your position. After all, you are in the wrong, by having been unfaithful, so there's not point in trying to justify yourself or lay the blame at her door.

We can't help the way we feel and it's futile trying to resist it, so I suggest you try to make the cleanest break you can, and hope that in time your wife will see that you did the best you could under the circumstances. She'll at least be glad that she didn't catch you out or hear from someone else, which would be the ultimate humiliation for her.

Good luck and I hope you and your new woman can make a good start in your new life together.

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"Time flies like an arrow -
Fruit flies like a banana"

M Y - N A U G H T Y - P I C T U R E S ! !

Never was that said or implied...

We ask other's here for advice and expect honesty. Here's an example...

If I post a pic of myself in tight jeans and ask, "Do you think my stomach sticks out to far over my belt?", I expect something an opinion like, "Yes... maybe you should try a baggier look."

What I would not expect is something along the lines of, "What are you thinking? You're a fat cow. You're obviously lazy and don't care about yourself very much."

Bottom line...

Honest opinion = OK

Judgement and condemnation = NOT OK

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Put me on wheels and I'll turn tricks.

Clever? Nah, I ran out of that years ago. But if you find this, let me know, k?
"The road goes ever on..." ~ Tolkien

In memory of my friend skip...
Go then, there are other worlds than these