I definetly understand wher you are coming from and that's kinda why I'm so hyped about this. I can try to explain everything else but how do I explain to a 12-13 year old britney spears wanna be that being that way is straight up wrong because of so many reasons, none of which I could explain to her.

You can explain them to her. It is absolutely appropriate to tell a 12-13 year old that you want them to have more respect for themselves than is often the case in the media. You cna tell her exactly what it's like to be a boy at that age and how they think. The biggest mistake is not telling her precisely why you feel it's wrong and what message people get from that sort of icon.

__________________

The practice of putting women on pedestals began to die out when it was discovered that they could give orders better from there.~ Betty Grable

If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
One man's dream is another man's nightmare~~~~> §¤ Lilith ¤§
~>My Scribbles<~
==>Gone Shopping<== ~Just a Quickie~ *~A Celebration Vacation~* ~Surprises~ Sleeping With the Window Open
What Did You Do Today? Self Defense Class ~Short Sweet Snippets~ § Summer Spin § Story Challenge Submission Pajamas

I can't add any insight here except this........

A praying mantis bites the head off her mate because if she doesn't.....their species will cease to exist! He cannot complete copulation (ejaculate) with his head attached (something in his brain won't allow it).....and she is smart enough to know that! She doesn't do it because she hates him.....but because she appreciates what he has done for her.......his scarifice of self will help their species live on! And that's all I have to say about that.....lmao!

I am, however, following this thread closely because my baby sister is a single parent and her son has NO grandparents and NO male figure in his life.....he is 13 going on 29 and she is at wits end at this moment as to what to do to guide him in the right direction! Up until just this year he has been an exemplary child.....and then he became posessed! It seems to me that silentsoul has a good point about outside sources influencing a childs life, no matter the good examples set at home!!! Please correct me if I'm wrong......but how else could one explain my sister's son changing into a horror, seemingly overnight???

BTW...did I mention he is 13.....and has "discovered himself"??? He now knows EVERYTHING, including everything sexual....and doesn't need sis's influence to interrupt him while he goes about his life!!!!!

__________________
Minds are like parachutes. They only work when they are open.

~Thomas Dewar~

Mine's 12.5 you explained it...testosterone. Induces all sorts of odd behaviors.

__________________

The practice of putting women on pedestals began to die out when it was discovered that they could give orders better from there.~ Betty Grable

If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
One man's dream is another man's nightmare~~~~> §¤ Lilith ¤§
~>My Scribbles<~
==>Gone Shopping<== ~Just a Quickie~ *~A Celebration Vacation~* ~Surprises~ Sleeping With the Window Open
What Did You Do Today? Self Defense Class ~Short Sweet Snippets~ § Summer Spin § Story Challenge Submission Pajamas

Ut Oh! I feared that might be the ONLY answer, Lilith! How does one "battle" the battle of testosterone?????? My sister is soooooooooooooooooo afraid for her son's behavior........his school work is going by he wayside...he's so defiant.......and he seemingly doesn't care about anything but himself.....he tunes her out.......etc., etc............and hubby and I don't know how to help her! I don't mean to hijack this thread.....I'll just keep reading and see what comes of it!

__________________
Minds are like parachutes. They only work when they are open.

~Thomas Dewar~

Every time I pass my monster in the hall, mind you he stopped making eye contact with peons such as myself some months ago ,I hug the living stuffin' out of him and whisper " This too shall pass"

Is the only way I have found to conquer it...apparently maternal affection has some sort of effect on this chemical, testosterone Weakens it's bonds on the host, there by decreasing the effect of it's chemical properties

I think keying in on the behaviors (instead of the kid) individually and making consequences for the one you wanna extinct specifically is the key. Pick your battles by virtue of their importance. ((hugs)) to your sis from someone who is right there with her in those preteen trenches

__________________

The practice of putting women on pedestals began to die out when it was discovered that they could give orders better from there.~ Betty Grable

If I wanted your opinion, I'd remove the duct tape and ask you for it.~ Me
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
One man's dream is another man's nightmare~~~~> §¤ Lilith ¤§
~>My Scribbles<~
==>Gone Shopping<== ~Just a Quickie~ *~A Celebration Vacation~* ~Surprises~ Sleeping With the Window Open
What Did You Do Today? Self Defense Class ~Short Sweet Snippets~ § Summer Spin § Story Challenge Submission Pajamas

Ladies,

We are also navigating the seas of adolescence (both female and male), and I can assure you that teenagers’ aberrant behavior cannot be blamed on television – or the lack of it. It seems to well up unbidden from some endless font of obnoxiousness. Good luck!

__________________
Eudaimonia

Lilith, I think this is by far the wisest thing I've have ever 'heard' you say.

Yes, PICK YOUR BATTLES!! For example, in the entire scheme of things how important is a pierced ear, or a crazy hairstyle, or 'fad' clothing (I don't mean clothing that exposes too much of the body), a cleaned room, an unmade bed, or whether or not he cleans his plate, just as examples.

I raised 3 boys and although they indeed had a father in the home, I had the bulk of the responsibility since Dad worked afternoons. They only really saw him on weekends. My oldest pierced his ear without permission at 16. I wanted him to wait til he was 18. But I figured if this is the worst thing he ever did, then he'd be doing damn good. He had extremely long hair too. Again, I used the same reasoning....if that's the worst he ever did etc.

By all means encourage him to bring his friends home. I always had a gang of kids at my house. I didn't always enjoy it, but I knew who they were hanging out with and if they were home with their buddies, I knew where they were.

All of my boys have turned out to be very responsible adults. No drugs, no problem drinkers and no trouble with the law.
But I am grateful I didn't have any girls to raise....I would have had a hard time dealing with a Madonna-wannabe.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin
*******************
My Stories:
Dream Date
Just Desserts
Internet Lovers Meet - Part 1
Internet Lovers Meet - Part 2
Internet Lovers Meet - Part 3
RAVISHED!!
My Birthday - A Fantasy

Okay, as a guy who had about the worst upbringing possible along with several mental problems (depression and stuff) I can give a little personal experience in this. When I started the testostorone battle, I basically changed over night. Pretty much every teenage male changes, just for their own personal reasons. Deep down, all I wanted was for my parental influence to be there enough so I know they still cared and basically pick your battles.

All good reading from Lilith, SS and silentsoul!

I have just a few things to add about my nephew that touches on things said above. First.......Lilith, my sister does (or I should say did) almost exactly what you do......she hugs Dylan all the time and tells him she loves him no matter what. She tries to sit and talk with him on a level equal to his age...and tells him (and he knows this) that they can talk about ANYTHING! She's let many an insignificant thing pass (like coming in 1/2 hour late or "accidently" swearing when he thought she didn't hear him.....oh hell, she's even bought hair stripper to strip his natural color and dyed it white because he "HAD" to have it) in lieu of taking on the bigger, more significant problems......the absolute biggest right now being his "no care" attitude towards school. He had to go to summer school this past summer in order to move to the next grade. He passed by the skin of his teeth because she took him there....left only enough time for him to complete his class.....and picked him up immediatley following. And before they went home she spoke to his teacher and got his assignments and took him home and sat while he completed them immediately! Otherwise he wouldn't have gone....or if he did he would have told her he didn't get any assignments or that he already did them...or whatever! Now.....he's back in school and failing miserably already...in the first marking period! With everything that's been happening lately...she says she feels like SHE is being punished and he doesn't have a care in the world! He could literally care less about any of this!

To make things worse....she thinks she can trace the start of this behavior back to when he didn't get picked for the basketball team. He'd played basketball from the time he was 5. In elementary school, he played all the time and he even joined a local club to be able to play after school. He loved it and was very good at it. When he left elementary school and went to middle school he was a star player on the clubs team. He was then sent to the highschool.....where he is now and was last year.......and he wasn't picked for the school team. Sis went to the school and told them this was going to crush him and begged them to at least let him try out again. The coach never got back to her and as suspected it did crush him and ever since then (she thinks) it all started going down hill! He quit his club team and discovered girls and all hell broke loose! She's not sure (yet) if he's doing drugs...but suspects he might be and is getting a test kit to test him. She knows the ramifications of what just the idea that she wants to test him will do to her relationship (or whats left of it) with him....but she feels it's the only responsible thing as a parent to do at this point!

I talked to hubby about this and he said he vividly remembers when he was Dylan's age....and all he ever thought about was sex! Well...that and drugs and rock and roll.......and he was serious!

I told her.........get counseling......get help......and if she can think of ANYTHING that I might do to help, all she has to do is ask and it will be done.

Just NEED to say thanks for the insight folks...and for letting me ramble in appearance of hijacking this thread...of which I had no intention of doing.......but it seemed like a good thread to lay this all out on!

So sorry silentsoul! Seems no matter how well a parent might prepare for the best life for his/her child......things can go wrong. I'll not say that the media has no interjection into the upbringing of a child.....but I think it's the rarity that a child will go totally astray from just the effects of a media induced concept! There are so many other "outside" factors to contend with.....not to mention the inner changings that an adolescent endures! One can NEVER be sure if your child will be part of a statistic.....no matter how well he/she is brought up! Seems children will grow and change into themselves regardless of our best intentions! If they "make it".....we take pride! If they somehow "fail"....we blame ourselves.

__________________
Minds are like parachutes. They only work when they are open.

~Thomas Dewar~

LixyChick,

I hope things improve for you and yours. Good luck!

__________________
Eudaimonia

Thanks jseal....and everyone who's been letting me babble!

Sis sounded a bit better when I spoke with her yesterday. It's quite a rollercoaster ride for her.......but she's coping, I guess!

__________________
Minds are like parachutes. They only work when they are open.

~Thomas Dewar~

LixyChick,

Sometimes one needs to let go. You did. You needed to. No problem here.

__________________
Eudaimonia

Lixy---It's really a coincidence,that my oldest daughters(Colleen)
sons name is Dylan.He has mental problems.He is very immature
& loses concentration very easily. Irish
P.S.He is my oldest Grandson!

__________________
Irish---Better to be dead & cool,then alive & uncool!
(Harley Davidson & the Marlboro Man)

I may be shot here but

a) I think that advertisers still believe "...it is a man's world..."

b) A psych Prof once said to me "...we're all voyers, we all like to watch but most of us repress it..."

c) I haven't actually read all the responses because I'm 3/4 of the way through a bottle of wine on my own...sorry

__________________
It is so hard to look cool walking down a hill!