Barry Bonds #756
 

* or not ? and who cares ?

Not I.

Yep, I care. :nod:

As for whether or not it deserves an asterisk........... can't really say right now. I'm not foolish enough to think that something funny wasn't going on with the man's body but ................ I just don't know. The guy is an amazing ballplayer regardless.

Are you an advocate of the steroid olympics?

Well this is the way I look at it The Babe did it while he was drunk and fondling woman , Hank one of the most upstanding men in baseball Bonds on the other hand.....Who knows

Drunk and fondling women is not enhancing sporting performance.

My point exactly

Depends on the sport. :p

Watching the game last night, a few innings prior to Bonds hitting the big one, ESPN ran a quote from former Atlanta Brave Dale Murphy. Dale is a Mormon, doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, didn't chase the women (although at last count he & his wife had 6 kids, so I assume his dick works just fine ;) ), & he fell just short of hitting 400 home runs and was twice voted MVP...the upshot of Dale's comments were if there's an asterisk after the record, Barry put it there himself, the evidence of performance enhancement is fairly convincing, & that BB has always been a hard guy to get along with.

My feeling is this: Barry would have been one of the greats without cheating - he's always been a simply awesome player to watch, but he's also always had some kind of personality disorder...I believe the term is "being an asshole"...and he's been a poor steward of the game, surprising since his dad was a great player, & his godfather is Willie Mays...you'd think that Wille would have pulled him aside at some point & laid one upside his head, & told him to cut the crap...
My 2nd thought is if you can make Murph tell you to piss off, you must have done something real bad...

You're absolutely right Scotz.

I've never said that I particularly like Barry. Actually, I've always thought he was a prick but the man can play ball. But Bud Selig and the rest of Major League Baseball are just as much to blame for the "steroid era" as Bonds. He was just going along with something he knew he could get away with. Ethical? Absolutely not and I don't condone the performance enhancing drugs but baseball let it happen. Bud Selig acting like he's offended by Bonds breaking Henry's mark now makes me even more sick than the thought of the guys using the stuff.

And you all know I'm a Cubs fan to my core and yes, I have absolutely detested Sammy Sosa from the second he came to my team. Always has been a fake who was always "me, me, me" and I'm glad he isn't finishing his fraudulent career with my Cubs.

I'll take guys like Ryne Sandberg (my personal baseball hero) or Murph (whom Scotz mentioned) anytime. And yes, Dale Murphy should be in the Hall of Fame, there's no doubt about it.

I've been thinking about this a lot today and I just sent an email to a buddy saying pretty much the same thing as I'm about to type.

I remember when Hank Aaron broke Babe Ruth's record. They broke in to TV programming with a "Special Bulletin" to let us know it had happened. I was only 6 yrs. old and not paying a lot of attention to it. Didn't really know who Hank Aaron was. My dad (whom I've posted about in other threads as well as being less than a caring parent) had me watch that moment and told me to pay attention because it was something incredible that we'd never see happen again. I knew something about who Babe Ruth was and knew that if Henry was breaking his record, it must be something great.

I've never forgotten that moment and over the years it has become sort of magical for me. One really great memory I have of my dad and one of the reasons I love baseball so much to this very day.

I wonder what fathers were telling their 6 yr. olds last night when Barry passed Aaron? I truly hope that those kids can look back upon what happened last night and feel just a bit of magic. Baseball should be magical.

As Curt Shilling said in his testamony-If you have to use steroids to win,you're
a cheater & a cheater is not a winner!
This has been of personal interest to me.Most of my life,I have been interested in Bodybuilding & weightlifting.It pisses you off when you workout,
everyday for years(cleanly) & someone that takes steroids,beats you in a
contest when they have only dedicated a few mos. of work.At least it didn't
deter me!I'm 63 & I still workout daily.At 63,i'm not going to enter any contests but I'm Diabetic & it keeps my Blood Sugar & pressure,noticibly lower! Irish :devil:

I am convinced that Bonds took steroids, based on the photographic and statistical evidence. That being said, I agree with David Ortiz in that you still have to "hit the freakin' ball". Barry can hit, no question. But a good chunk of his HRs wouldn't have made it out without steroids.

So, yeah, he gets the asterisk.

Don't Care!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He didn't do any of it on his own. He cheated and deserves nothing from the "True Fans of Baseball". Nough said! :bs:

My feelings are kind of running full circle on this...as I said earlier, he didn't need any enhancement to be one of the greats, he was knocking the dogshit out the ball back when he was a skinny kid in the 80's...& Aaron went the same route physically himself, lanky kid to bulked up in his later years, plus he took advantage of Atlanta-Fulton Co. stadium's band-box dimensions & lighter air (1000 ft above sea level, the highest park in the major until Colorado came along) to pump up his numbers - and, believe or not, children, there were rumors that Bad Henry (as Kolfax called him) may have been using some kind of artificial stimulants to bolster his performance - never proven, but it's always the stink of the shit people throw at you that hangs around.

My thinking is that Bonds' accomplishment is that he's hung on long enough to break the record, which was Aaron's secret to setting his own...and if Bonds had been using steroids long-term, I believe his career would have been shortened considerably (I base this assumption on the shortened careers of other athletes who were known to have or strongly suspected of hitting the 'roids).

Most of baseballs rules that deal with cheating are really more safety issues - spitters & scuffing were allowed in the early days, until they realized a dirty ball was hard to see, & guys were actually killed by beanings by a ball they never saw coming...similarly, corked bats do not hit the ball farther (see last night's episode of MythBusters if you don't believe me), but a corked bat is stucturally comprimised, & almost sure to shatter, sending wood shrapnel at everybody on the infield...similarly, I believe the ban on steroids is more about keeping players from hurting their careers (& likely shortening their lives) in the quest for hitting a few more homers...

Haven't changed my mind about Barry being an :ahole: , tho...