Amnesty!

[Irish]

I know that many disagree with me but I have just been notified that Obama
& McCain have agreed to bring back up the Amnesty Bill!Ried has agreed to stop the E-Verify program.I tell you this because Illigal immigration is one of
my MAJOR interests,especially with all of the citizens that are out of work!
Many say that they only do work that others won't do.There isn't a job that
I ever wouldn't do.Perhaps that's why both of my houses have the mortgages
paid off! Irish :wink:

[jseal]

Amnesties have been controversial wherever they have been introduced throughout history.

[lizzardbits]

Ahh, and I used to think the same way you do, but after the heart ache, the separation, the shear amount of money and time that Mayhem and I have gone through and spent just to become a family and immigrate LEGALLY, I really understand why men women and children sneak into the US or overstay their visitor visas.

It took me time to walk in these immigrants' shoes to understand. And believe me! I have walked many thousands of miles and so has Mayhem and every member of our families!

Yes it is a heated topic, yes there is a lot more that I want to write about sweeping accusations but as this is Thanksgiving and I am thankfull that I have Mayhem as a wonderful husband, and I am grateful that we have the opportunity to apply to come home, I shall leave this post as is and just wish you and your family a Happy and Blessed Thanksgiving that you have the choice to spend together.

[Loulabelle]

Obviously, I'm not American, but for my part, I welcome anyone into my country if they're willing to work for a living and want to support their own kids.

I have much more of a problem with the 'home grown' layabouts who spend my tax money on the many children they produce and then fail to bring up properly. Ironically, these are the same people who are usually the ones being racist about immigrants and teaching their kids to be bigotted, narrow minded and hypocritical.

I've also learned that I'm in the minority in this regard and that I probably always will be.

[Jude30]

I amazes me the number of people who blame the person trying to make a living doing what ever menial back breaking job they can find, and not the people paying slave wages to people who have no legal recourse about how they're treated.

[AZRedHot]

We are a nation of immigrants, from the beginning. Funny that this post should show up on Thanksgiving, the first "national" holiday celebrated by the some of the earliest European immigrants to these shores. I think it behooves us to remember our roots as a nation, and from that, find compassionate answers to the thorny issues of immigration today. If we do not, we choose to be blind to our history, and we abdicate our humanity.

[Irish]

We are a nation of immigrants, from the beginning. Funny that this post should show up on Thanksgiving, the first "national" holiday celebrated by the some of the earliest European immigrants to these shores. I think it behooves us to remember our roots as a nation, and from that, find compassionate answers to the thorny issues of immigration today. If we do not, we choose to be blind to our history, and we abdicate our humanity.
The reason that this was posted on Thanksgiving was that I belong to NumbersUSA & I recieved an e-mail from them on Thanksgiving.I posted this
as an informative post,because I only get on the computer,once a day.I was
getting ready to go to one of my daughters for Thanksgiving dinner & I
thought that people might be interested as ILLEGAL immigration is one of my
MAJOR interests.Not legal immigration!Sorry if you think it was an inappropriate
Thanksgiving subject! Irish
P.S. Different strokes for different folks!

[scotzoidman]

Amnesty is a widely misunderstood legal concept. Most seem to believe it's a blanket "pardon", saying all is forgiven & you can stay. No such thing. While it removes the penalty (fines & deportation) for the crime, anyone accepting amnesty must still go thru the paperwork & pay the fees normally associated with legal immigration (as Liz experienced). I believe it's a logical alternative to the logistical nightmare of rounding 'em all up & shipping 'em back...especially since most would be back over the border before the next sunrise.

[AZRedHot]

The reason that this was posted on Thanksgiving was that I belong to NumbersUSA & I recieved an e-mail from them on Thanksgiving.I posted this
as an informative post,because I only get on the computer,once a day.I was
getting ready to go to one of my daughters for Thanksgiving dinner & I
thought that people might be interested as ILLEGAL immigration is one of my
MAJOR interests.Not legal immigration!Sorry if you think it was an inappropriate
Thanksgiving subject! Irish
P.S. Different strokes for different folks!

I didn't think it was inappropriate; I rather thought it was probably more appropriate and thought-provoking timing than you may have intended.

[Oldfart]

LOL.

It's good to see arguing over positives for a change.

[Lord Snow]

My position on the illegal immigration is it's not fair since quite a few are getting paid under the table, don't pay income tax of any kind, and then send their kids to public schools, get free lunches for them and what not. I have no problem what so ever with immigration, or people wanting the opportunities that are granted in this country. However, I think you should still go through the proper channels to get it done. If I had gone through LB and Mayhem went through to do it legally, I'd be upset knowing that my neighbors were here illegally and not paying into the government they're taking advantage of. As was mentioned though, different strokes for different folks.

[Fangtasia]

I'm not against immigration...but when they come floating along and try it illegally, sink their boat and make em swim home or round em up and fly em home.

Come in the front door or dont bother coming!

[PantyFanatic]

Never mind flying them home for free .... again... and again... and again ... If they are serious about wanting to accept the legal and stop the illegal there would be penalties. Not free air fairs. Put them in the workhouse and make them work trash pick-up, sewer cleaning, dead animal removal etc. for minimum wage until they paid off the STIFF fines for illegal entry and wait for their LEGAL processing to come through. They come in because BIG $$$ at the top wants cheap labor. No other reason.

[Oldfart]

You are such a cynic PF.

Didn't say you were wrong, just cynical.

[dicksbro]

PF a cynic? :yikes:

I kind of like OrliFanatic's idea. If our borders aren't worth protecting ... what is?

[Irish]

Subj: Has the war been costly...?


You think the war is costing us?



OH! Now I understand!!!

You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much? Read this:

Boy, am I confused. I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us. I now find that to be RIDICULOUS!

I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I have included the URL's for verification of all the following facts.

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments. Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! Verify at: http://transcripts..cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn..com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens. Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers. Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens. Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn..com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries.. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Verify at: Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, 'estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.' Verify at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf


13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. Verify at: http://www.rense com/general 75/niht.htm <http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States .' Verify at: http: //www.drdsk.com/articleshtml<http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml> <http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. Are we THAT stupid? Irish :banghead:

[Lilith]

I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. Are we THAT stupid? Irish :banghead:


You win. I'm sick of it already.

[Neige]

Have you verified those facts via the links, Irish?


...Then why don't some of the links work?!?!

[Neige]

...And really, you should check that the links (those that actually work, I mean) do indeed verify the "facts" like you say they do. That "fact" #2, the one that says that "$2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens," is not verified by the link you provide. There's no point in checking out the rest of the sources you quote, as you are not credible in your reporting of facts.

[Lilith]

Prediction:
I'm not responsible. I just got this in an email.

[Oldfart]

I won't comment on the claimed direct costs, but this was a doozy.

"$200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens."

This says that Americans would be earning higher wages if the cheap labour wasn't holding back wages. If that were true, then that money is still going to Americans (the bosses), so it won't count as a national loss.

[jseal]

...Then why don't some of the links work?!?!
Neige,

Annoyingly, several of the links are mistyped. Here are three corrections. They should open in your browser.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html

To respond to item #9, if unsuppressed – higher – wages were paid instead of the suppressed – lower – ones, the additional costs would probably be passed along in the form of increased prices. Would this be the preferred solution? If so, would it remain the preferred solution if the increased prices put the products or services beyond the reach of poorer Americans?

[dicksbro]

I can only repeat what I said before ... if our borders aren't worth protecting ... what is? Do we really not care who enters? Drug dealers? Criminals? Terrorists? Is there any reason we should assume they would not take advantage of an open border policy? :shrug:

[Oldfart]

Men and women of ill intent won't let a few borders get in their way.

There are three obvious ways to go:

1. Eject everyone who is not in the States legally,

2. Throw up your hand and open the borders, (probably not a high probability)

or 3. Throw out all the criminal illegals and hang onto all the ones who
have dealt honestly after their illegal entry.

When they have solved that, world peace and cold fusion will be solved by the following Tuesday.

[lizzardbits]

When they have solved that, world peace and cold fusion will be solved by the following Tuesday.


I love whorled peas! I have yet to try this new drink you speak of!


Actually the answer is:










42!!!!

[Irish]

Prediction:
I'm not responsible. I just got this in an email.
WRONG!I am responsible & this e-mail was just to wake people up over just how much this is costing us.I haven't verified everything but this is just to
wake LEGAL citizens up!If someone wants to nitpick over everything-more
power to them!If people dissaree with anything than don't read it,there is no
mandatory thing that everyone has to agree with everything. Irish :spank:
P.S.If everyone agreed on everything,we wouldn't need elections!

[Irish]

[QUOTE=Irish]WRONG!I am responsible & this e-mail was just to wake people up over just how much this is costing us.I haven't verified everything but this is just to
wake LEGAL citizens up!If someone wants to nitpick over everything-more
power to them!If people dissagree with anything than don't read it,there is no
mandatory thing that everyone has to agree with everything. Irish :spank:
P.S.If everyone agreed on everything,we wouldn't need elections!

[AZRedHot]

I can only repeat what I said before ... if our borders aren't worth protecting ... what is? Do we really not care who enters? Drug dealers? Criminals? Terrorists? Is there any reason we should assume they would not take advantage of an open border policy? :shrug:

Of course, we've got plenty of fine, upstanding, American-born drug dealers, criminals, and terrorists here, as well. I never really understand the assumption that the bulk of the people who will cross the border are from these 3 sociopathic groups. I imagine they comprise the same percentage in just about any population. Most people, though, just want to make a better life for their families, like you and me, and like our great-grandparents did when they came to this country.

[Neige]

WRONG!I am responsible & this e-mail was just to wake people up over just how much this is costing us.I haven't verified everything but this is just to
wake LEGAL citizens up!If someone wants to nitpick over everything-more
power to them!If people dissaree with anything than don't read it,there is no
mandatory thing that everyone has to agree with everything. Irish :spank:
P.S.If everyone agreed on everything,we wouldn't need elections!

You claim responsibility to lies?

[scotzoidman]

I love whorled peas! I have yet to try this new drink you speak of!

I had an ice cold Fusion just the other day. It's an acquired taste. Probably just hasn't gotten around to Merry Olde yet.

[dicksbro]

Actually the answer is:

42!!!!

I think you've got it ... the answer to life, the universe and everything! :x:




I think I'll grab my towel, though, just in case.

[WildIrish]

My great-grandparents are registered at Ellis Island. They came here the way you're supposed to. And they became citizens. I don't have a problem at all with people going wherever they want to to make a better life for themselves and their loved ones. I encourage positive change. But you have to do it the right way, and breaking the laws of the country you're coming to is not the way to do it.

Quick story...we were choosing a partner family for our most current Habitat house and during the selection process, it was revealed to us that the family was living in the country illegally. They both had jobs and a solid work history, no criminal convictions (that we knew of, but we couldn't be 100% sure because they didn't have valid SSN's), and were very nice people. My problem was that they had lived in the country for almost 20 years, and had not made ANY effort at all to enter the process of becoming a US citizen. They had intentionally chosen not to take advantage of the last amnesty issued, and kept on living their lie. I have a problem with that, and I had a bigger problem building a house for them. If that makes me a bad person, I think I can live with that and sleep at night.

Bottom line for me is that I have less of a problem with how people enter the country than what they do about their status once they arrive.

Maybe the answer is to make the process of becoming a citizen less cumbersome. Maybe the answer is to make it perfectly clear that people that come here and don't go through the process are not welcome. Maybe it's a combination of both. I don't know, and there are people a lot smarter than I am that should be able to figure something out, but nobody seems to want to.

[jseal]

... Maybe the answer is to make the process of becoming a citizen less cumbersome. Maybe the answer is to make it perfectly clear that people that come here and don't go through the process are not welcome. Maybe it's a combination of both ...
WildIrish,

Thank you. :)

John

[Oldfart]

The Western World needs to buy a half a million square miles of the Gobi Desert, or Patagonia.

New citizens who reject their civic obligations and born citizens who refuse to live within the minimum requirements of society can be moved there in self defence.

As this will not be foreign territory, there is no element of exile or Gitmo, but home will be lots safer.

[Lilith]

Your ears must have been burning WI I told someone that HH story about you today.

[scotzoidman]

I don't know, and there are people a lot smarter than I am that should be able to figure something out, but nobody seems to want to.
The smarter-than-we-are people have tried to work out a solution.

From where I stand, it's the not-so-much-smarter part of the populace that have formed the roadblock. Just sayin'...

[jseal]

One of the problems with this issue is that it seems to have been moralized. Rather than seek a compromise between different legitimate positions, too many of those who can address the problem have cast those who do not share their position as being “bad”. For an example, witness Senator McCain’s failed immigration bill – the issues were overwhelmed by the speeches which cast the bill’s supporters as somehow “giving in” to the illegals, focusing on the proponents of the idea, rather than the idea itself.