$700,000,000,000

[Lilith]

Have you any idea how awesome my dungeon would be with that kind of money????

[osuche]

sigh

If you do the math, make an assumption about how many US households pay taxes (not on federal assitance), it'l almost $5 K per household. To bail out the banks and financial institutions that were "minting" money two years ago.

Sigh.

[Oldfart]

To bail out bastards who have made their millions and ran away. There isn't a pit in Lil's dungeon deep enough for these parasites. They make out they're living the American (and OZ and Brit) dream, but it's to the detriment of the rest. Gordon Gecko's spiritual children.

[jennaflower]

I hate to say this, but perhaps its time for a recession. To be perfectly honest, in my own personal life, I can't imagine it being any worse. Perhaps a recession would open the eyes of the people to the reality that it isn't the governments job to dish out handouts and fix everyones problems! IMHO it is because people continue to over extend themselves and then expect that the government will bail them out that only proves to make things worse!

There was a time not long ago (let's say 25 years ago) when my father would have (and often did) do whatever it took (including working 3 jobs) to ensure that our family was taken care of.

Skip ahead to today, when 50% of marriages end in divorce and of those that have children, most are failing (by choice) to support their children. Instead of supporting the families by hard work and sacrifice, they are depending on our government to feed, clothe, and support their families. Our system of hand ups has not only turned into hand outs but is being abused.

I urge anyone to go spend a day in your local social services office. Watch how many able bodied people are coming in for their hand outs! I promise you that the out number those who truly need a hand up by 9 to 1!

After that outing, go to your local social security office. You will find able bodied people there as well!

Our system is busted all the way around! The financial-morgage-investment bailout is only one part of it.

Personally, this bailout isn't helping me.

Off my soap box! I apoligize if I offended!

[wyndhy]

not at all jenna! when we express our opinions with class and tact, there's no reason to appologize. i just call it sentience. :)

i'm wondering how many worthy students that much money could put through trade school or univeristy and grad school.

personally, i think it's needed, but i am worried they're going too fast. nothing great ever comes from legislation made in haste and worry. and i have some better ideas about where they could gut the money from.:rolleyes2

[gekkogecko]

Just remember, the government is supposed to keep out of people's business, people aren't entitled to a future, and the redistribution of wealth in the form of taxes is a horrible way to run a society.

...except when it comes to bailing out corporate fat cats. Then it's all worthwhile.

[jseal]

If it is good is quite different from if it is needed. I wonder what might be the result of inaction.

[scotzoidman]

First let me say I'm not the least happy about anything even vaguely connected to this bailout...that it's going to happen, or that things got to such a state that it needs to happen, not happy at all. But...

We do have a test case for the consequences of doing nothing. It was in 1929-30, & the consequence was called the Great Depression.

jenna, I respect what you're saying, & if just a little recession was the worst of it, I would agree that we should just take the hit & get it over with...but that's not what we're facing now, & frankly, I think Main Street has already seen the recession for most of the past year. Tweedle-dee & Tweedle-dum (aka Fed Chairman & Treasury Sec.) have been saying for months we can get thru this ok, because that's their jobs, to try to calm the markets; now that they can't placate everybody with soothing sounds, they've got a credibility problem, & I don't blame Congress for dragging their asses thru the coals...

Tightening the regulations back to where they were before is the best we can do now, but it's still closing the barn door after the cows have gotten out...

[Scarecrow]

Scots I am afraid that the Great Depression would look like a joy ride to what would happen today. In 1929-1930 era this country was mostly rural farmers, they could grow there own food. That would not happen today.

[Lilith]

I think that no CEOs in charge of those companies should be paid. If you fuck up like that on your job no $$. I will be furious to see how much of the money ends up in the pockets of those who are already our countries wealthiest criminals........ er I mean citizens :p

[Jude30]

The thing I keep coming back to, is that the same people who have been screaming for years for deregulation are not singing a different toon.

The same people who wail against socialized medicine are now all for socializing the banking, and mortgage industry.

The free market can be a great thing as long as people show some moral restraint. Unfortunately stupid met greedy, and now it's a huge shit sandwich that we all get to take a bite of.

[scotzoidman]

The thing I keep coming back to, is that the same people who have been screaming for years for deregulation are not singing a different toon.

The same people who wail against socialized medicine are now all for socializing the banking, and mortgage industry.

The free market can be a great thing as long as people show some moral restraint. Unfortunately stupid met greedy, and now it's a huge shit sandwich that we all get to take a bite of.
Valid points all, jude...
And of course, as always, those with more bread won't have to eat near as much shit...

[scotzoidman]

Scots I am afraid that the Great Depression would look like a joy ride to what would happen today. In 1929-1930 era this country was mostly rural farmers, they could grow there own food. That would not happen today.
Maybe not so much in the Dust Bowl stricken areas, which occurred almost simultaneously, further complicating matters. But your point is well taken, I was raised by two children of the Depression, & learned enough at their feet to know that we don't want any part of that steaming pile...

[wyndhy]

I think that no CEOs in charge of those companies should be paid. If you fuck up like that on your job no $$. I will be furious to see how much of the money ends up in the pockets of those who are already our countries wealthiest criminals........ er I mean citizens :p
it's a drop in the bucket, but the principle of the thing! what a slap in the face. piss on a cut. spit in your eye. low down dirty trick.

[jseal]

... personally, i think it's needed, but i am worried they're going too fast. nothing great ever comes from legislation made in haste and worry ...
wyndhy,

I agree. It is a pity that back in July Secretary Paulson had argued to the Senate Banking Committee in favor of a formal mechanism to take over and wind down non-banks, such as investment banks and insurers, in an orderly way, similar to what exists for retail banks. But Congress was only prepared to consider that as part of a bigger regulatory overhaul under the next president.

If Congress had taken action when they were briefed, they would have had an extra two months to develop a plan.

[wyndhy]

that congress. what a bunch of pussies:D

[jseal]

Perhaps they were too concerned at the time with the price of gasoline to spend too much time on other issues.

[Lilith]

coulda shoulda woulda

[jseal]

Maybe someday they will do something useful.

[wyndhy]

and monkeys might fly out of my butt, too

[Lilith]

Is that a side effect of the chemo???????:D

[Lord Snow]

If pro is the opposite of con, then is progress the opposite of congress? This should have been foreseen I agree. I also agree that the government gives too many hand outs to able bodied people that should be able to take care of themselves. As much as I hate to say this, Bush made a valid statement. It wasn't just one group of companies. It was many companies. There is a point where when you expand to much to quick it breaks. That's exactly what happened. The market grew to a point where it was out of control and now it's broken. I did notice that the president didn't say exactly what the plan was besides bailing out a few major companies.

[Scarecrow]

and monkeys might fly out of my butt, too


We will want pics of that for sure. :thumbs: :wink:

[scotzoidman]

I did notice that the president didn't say exactly what the plan was besides bailing out a few major companies.
Why fuck up a streak now with the finish line in sight? :ahole:

[PantyFanatic]

Don't worry about any of this. I've got it covered. :nod:

I'll give them the money.

............. Why not? I have more money than the government does. I make my little salary every week and have a hell of a lot less debt than they do. :shrug:

THYE DON'T HAVE ANY F__KING MONEY!

If you made $10 last month, YOU HAVE MORE MONEY than they do. Not this government or any other government has ANY MONEY! They don't, can't and will NEVER make any MONEY! Governments can only get money from it's people.

You can only hope that YOUR money is enough to pay for the things that a government needs and that they spend it wisely. The great depression that has been referenced a number of times differs in that then the government DID HAVE SOME MONEY.

Unfortunately THIS government DOESN'T have any money. They DO have the biggest DEBT obligation in recorded history of civilization. It makes no difference what placebo the politicians give us now. As Jude30 said, the stupid have met greedy, and now it's a huge shit sandwich that we all are having fed to us. The ratio of corruptions and non-producing parasites in our economy has simply overwhelmed the host.

[Jude30]

There is a point where when you expand to much to quick it breaks. That's exactly what happened. The market grew to a point where it was out of control and now it's broken. I did notice that the president didn't say exactly what the plan was besides bailing out a few major companies.

No what happened is greedy bankers figured out a way to make money off stupid people by convincing them they could afford houses that they couldn't. That is a recipe for disaster no matter how you cut it. The bankers didn't stop to think of the consequences of these loans failing in the long run because of the huge short term profits. Which was amazingly stupid of them since a monthly mortgage payment of half your salary is pretty much designed to fail. The idiot consumer on the other hand listened to the banker and took on those low low initial payments.

The only thing that grew too fast was the market of greedy to stupid. Bankers saw an easy short term profit, and the consumer saw that house that they "deserved" to have.

[WildIrish]

Short term greed (whether it was the investment bankers preying upon people that couldn't afford what they wanted, or by buyers knowingly accepting variable interest loans so they have more cash on hand while they hope the other shoe doesn't drop) is what the rest of us are now left to deal with. Thank goodness I've been paying a higher interest rate all this time so I'm already used to getting by on less cash.

I think the government should start buying lottery tickets.

[Scarecrow]

Instead of giving the money to the banks give it to the people who can not pay their loans off, then let it trickle up.

[scotzoidman]

Instead of giving the money to the banks give it to the people who can not pay their loans off, then let it trickle up.
What a great idea!

So great an idea, in fact, that it doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of being adopted by the yuckleheads in charge of things...

"Trickle up?" Isn't that a little like pissing up a rope? :roflmao:

[jseal]

Is it wise for the federal government to give money to people who couldn’t figure out that ARM payments can increase as well as decrease? Is there any evidence to indicate that their behavior would be more sensible now than when they signed their contracts? At least the Feds can regulate banks - they are companies. Would it be a good idea to have the Feds try to regulate the spending habits of hundreds of thousands of citizens?

[wyndhy]

Is that a side effect of the chemo???????:D
if by side effect you mean result, and if by chemo you mean "yuckleheads" then yes. :D

maybe the feds can just pay the bills, not actually give other, non-politco yuckleheads the money. that would work. yep, yep.

oh man, if i didn't have to pay my mortgage every month? duuuuuuuuuuuuude, that would rock!

[rabbit]

Have you any idea how awesome my dungeon would be with that kind of money????


:faint:

[scotzoidman]

Is that a side effect of the chemo???????:D
I think she meant the monkeys flying out of your butt. They don't warn you about all the possible side effects, do they?

[Oldfart]

Will bailing out the vampires help the poor peasants struggling to meet mortgages they can't afford?

[scotzoidman]

Chances are, we may not find out...looks like the president's own party is ready to play chicken with the US economy...stand by, sports fans...

[jseal]

Oh Dear! Oh Dear! Am I to believe that Congress, controlled by a majority from my political party, after all these months is still unable to deliver what the country needs?

Pathetic. :(

[lakritze]

There should be grand jury indictments. We should be taking this money out of the hides of the scum that caused these problems in the first place. Freeze assets,conficate {taking back} wealth. Hey,if their kids are attending the richest schools today,let them live in trailer parks tomorrow while mommy and daddy are serving time. Meanwhile,that drug addeled Rush Limbaugh is still calling Barak Obama an arab muslim,and Sarah Palin is as scarry as ever. If the repubs win this one,I will gladly spend the next four years crawling around the darkest, dankest corner of Lilith's dungeon.

[Scarecrow]

Don't worry lakritze, the way congress is going we will all be living in grass huts. They want to see what a Great Depression is really like by letting the banking industry fail completely. And if the USA goes down the rest of the world will follow.

[Scarecrow]

Has anyone else noticed that there are a lot fewer credit card offers in the mail box lately. Nobody wants to loan you any more money. Don't even ask for a car or house loan.

[osuche]

There's a part of me that thinks this bailout is part of a neocon plot to bankrupt the US Government completely so that all social programs get canceled and the government would have to be rebuilt...in their favor.

Burn down the house and hope you get the "contract" to rebuild.

It's scary but possible.

[scotzoidman]

There's a part of me that thinks this bailout is part of a neocon plot to bankrupt the US Government completely so that all social programs get canceled and the government would have to be rebuilt...in their favor.

Burn down the house and hope you get the "contract" to rebuild.

It's scary but possible.
What's really scary is I can't think of any other possible explanation...& I'm the original "yabut" guy...

[osuche]

Conspiracy theorist ^^^ :D :D :D

[scotzoidman]

You started it :trout:

[PantyFanatic]

... plot to bankrupt the US Government completely ....
:shock:













:roflmao:

[Oldfart]

A plot to do the done?

The US Government has been technically insolvent for years, in that it could not meet it's debts if they were all called in at one time, employee entitlements etc.

How do you do the done?

[jseal]

Secretary Paulson’s proposed $700 billion rescue package is a lot of money. So much money is involved that it represents a significant portion of the US GDP. This may be why there are enough members of Congress thinking about the cost to the taxpayer to slow down the bailout bandwagon. This package, together with loans to AIG and Bear Stearns, is almost 6% of GDP. This is much larger than the 3.7% of GDP of the savings and loan bailout in the late 1980s, which some Pixies may remember. Unexpectedly however, 6% of GDP is still much less than the cost of resolving other banking crises over the last 20 years.

Year Country...........% GDP

1988 US..................3.7
1991 Finland............12.8
1991 Sweden...........3.6
1994 Mexico............19.3
1997 Japan..............24.0
1997 South Korea.....31.2
2007 US..................5.8

Congress still needs to act soon. The Washington Mutual savings and loan was seized by the FDIC, and most of its operations were sold to JPMorgan.

[Lilith]

:spank: Back to my dungeon- do you think chrome and leather? or is PVC sexier?

[Jax]

A few thoughts...

Recession. I suspect we're in one already. And frankly, even if we are not, a recession isn't such a bad thing - once inawhile. It's sort of like a forest fire. Forest's need the occasionaly forest fire to eliminate all the dead branches, leaves etc, that have accumulated. By not doing that occasionally - in a controlled, quick fashion, you run the risk of having a massive fire eventually. So, bottom line, recessions are unpleasant, but controlled one is needed once in awhile.

$700M bailout. I hear you all about holding folks accountable. And I agree with that. My question is, if we don't do this. What do we do. Just let the crashing finish? I'm not a economics person, so I don't know how 'bad' it could get, or what 'bad' would really mean. But I suspect we need to do this. I think. Again, one good - overlooked thing - is that I think this problem is stopping the massive out of control home building on farm and woodland, while leaving older houses empty. Maybe this will fix that problem.

Lil's dungeon. Leather. Definitely leather.

[wyndhy]

jax, that's $700B as in billion. not million. an obscene amout of money to be sure.

[osuche]

Yes, the government is "insolvent" - in that the books never completely balance. But the money that comes in, goes out to pay immediate debts and there hasn't been an issue. Imagine having a government that couldn't meet payroll. Or a government that had to lay off a branch of government...say, like the FDA. Or the Department of Homeland Security. Imagine a government that couldn't afford to send out food stamps, or send military aid to Georgia.

That's what I'm talking about. That we would suddenly have to start making choices about things that were "fiat" in the past. This type of expenditure - jseal says it's 3.7% of GDP - could do that.

[Scarecrow]

:spank: Back to my dungeon- do you think chrome and leather? or is PVC sexier?


Chome & Leather for sure :thumbs:

Or in stead of chome, how about stainless Steel with that kind of money :69:

[PantyFanatic]

Please define the Gross Domestic Product that our service economy produces. :confused:

[jseal]

The gross domestic product (GDP) or gross domestic income (GDI) is one of the measures of national income and output for a given country's economy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_Domestic_Product)

[PantyFanatic]

I have TOTAL confidence in all figures from our Ministry of Propa..... Production. :rolleyes:

"Manufacturing" (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/03/07/BUGMJ5F97N1.DTL)



:rofl:

[Lilith]

Please define the Gross Domestic Product that our service economy produces. :confused:
The 1969 Pixies Lixicon reads:

The Gross Domestic Product is equivalent to the most disgusting meal produced in homes around the US which is obviously Tuna Casserole. So


GDP=Tuna casserole

[Lilith]

Chome & Leather for sure :thumbs:

Or in stead of chome, how about stainless Steel with that kind of money :69:

Stainless it is. That way I can autoclave the whole place :p With that kind of $$$ I can build a ginormous autoclave into the dungeon walls :p

[PantyFanatic]

:thanks: Lil
:) Now I feel so much more confident in everything, knowing that.


:kisser:

[Irezumi Kiss]

The only one who can save America now is McCain!

oops, I mean, McClaine!!! :thumbs:

http://fetchblog.com/images/live_free_or_die_hard.jpg

[lizzardbits]

Lil-in your dungeon, could you build an olympic sized pool and fill it with lime jello, please? oh and crotchless black latex (a la Michelle Pfiffer Catwoman suit) scuba diving gear?






and a bowl of whirled peas

[Oldfart]

osuche,

In 1975 a hostile senate refused to sign the money bills which gave the Australian Government the funds to operate. As a young public servant I was faced with the very real prospect of being unable to pay my rent and feed the wife and cat.

This created chaos for a couple of weeks.

[scotzoidman]

I have TOTAL confidence in all figures from our Ministry of Propa..... Production. :rolleyes:

"Manufacturing" (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/03/07/BUGMJ5F97N1.DTL)



:rofl:
I see what you mean...hey, we could see a significant drop in the murder rate if we don't count the folks who needed to die anyway...

[scotzoidman]

osuche,

In 1975 a hostile senate refused to sign the money bills which gave the Australian Government the funds to operate. As a young public servant I was faced with the very real prospect of being unable to pay my rent and feed the wife and cat.

This created chaos for a couple of weeks.
OF, we saw a similar govt shutdown a little over a decade ago, when Slick Willie & Newt the Coot got into a staredown over the budget. Fortunately, I chose not to go into the family business of being a govt. worker drone, but the fireworks were just as spectacular to watch, even if one's own wallet wasn't the rope in that little tug o' war...

[rabbit]

There's a part of me that thinks this bailout is part of a neocon plot to bankrupt the US Government completely so that all social programs get canceled and the government would have to be rebuilt...in their favor.

Burn down the house and hope you get the "contract" to rebuild.

It's scary but possible.


don't mean to sound dumb...but what is a "neocon"?

:p

[Oldfart]

Someone freshly convicted?

[scotzoidman]

don't mean to sound dumb...but what is a "neocon"?

:p
Short for neo-conservative...another one of those tags created by the "liberal media", no doubt :wink:

:huh:

[jseal]

"My Republican vote [in the 1972 presidential election] produced little shock waves in the New York intellectual community. It didn't take long - a year or two - for the socialist writer Michael Harrington to come up with the term "neoconservative" to describe a renegade liberal like myself. To the chagrin of some of my friends, I decided to accept that term; there was no point calling myself a liberal when no one else did." [Irving Kristol, "Forty Good Years," "The Public Interest," Spring 2005]

[jseal]

It is interesting that neither of the candidates has made much about what the impact of this enormous borrowing will do to their ability to start new spending programs.

They are both proposing that most of the 2001 & 2003 tax cuts be extended or made permanent. Senator Obama has proposed phasing out some exemptions & deductions for people making more than 200K pa. Senator McCain said he would consider a freeze on non-military spending to pay the costs of the bailout. I have a hard time imaging how new spending programs can be financed without additional revenues.

The predisposed conspiracy theorists should be able to have a lot of fun with this.

[Lilith]

I watched the debate too no need to translate what was said. And neither referenced how it will changed my dungeon either, in case you missed the part that was missing.

[jseal]

Not everyone watched the debate.

[Lilith]

Some by choice. This thread is not about the debate. If you'd like to discuss the debate start your own thread and then the peeps who want to discuss that stuff with you can.

[gekkogecko]

From http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/financial_meltdown;_ylt=AnR5sbnLypwLE74LREFYiKis0NUE today: (excerpts):

The measure would create a program that lets the government spend unprecedented sums of public money to prop up tottering financial institutions by buying their sagging mortgage-based investments and other devalued assets.

A breakthrough came when Democrats agreed to incorporate a GOP demand — letting the government insure some bad home loans rather than buy them — designed to limit the amount of federal money used in the rescue.

Another important bargain, vital to attracting support from centrist Democrats and Republicans who are fiscal hawks, would require that financial firms repay the government for any losses. A leading proposal would impose a 2 percent tax on the companies if, after five years, the program had not made back what it spent.

*************************************
But, also:
"We've still got more to do to finalize it, but I think we're there," said Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, who participated in the talks at the Capitol.

and:

Congressional leaders, who announced the tentative deal after marathon negotiations that ended early Sunday, hope to have a House vote Monday; a Senate vote would come later.
**************************************

Meaning, there's still time for various congresscritters to offer "amendments" on behalf of some interest group or other that would fuck up the deal. I'm wait and see on whether this particular deal, this particular legislation will actually do the short-term job it's designed to do.

[jseal]

... This thread is not about the debate ...
I agree with you. My comments were not about the debate, but rather on the topic of the $700B bailout, and how it will impact one of the two Senators - both of whom will be voting on the bill.

[Lilith]

They are 2% of the vote and you already admitted you offered up the info as not everyone watched the debate. I will not tell you again. Start your own thread if you want to engage in your style of "discussion."

We were discussing how it will impact us.

[PantyFanatic]

And the Hell's Angels are 1% of the bikers.






;)

[Lilith]

And PF is going to have to work harder to get locked into the silky room in the dungeon.

[jseal]

They are 2% of the vote and you already admitted you offered up the info as not everyone watched the debate. I will not tell you again. Start your own thread if you want to engage in your style of "discussion."

We were discussing how it will impact us.
There is no need to be antagonistic. None of my comments were. Actually, some of the other posts are not at all about the bailout package. I am sure that if we remain on topic, the thread/discussion can remain very interesting, as the bailout will continue to be with us for a long time to come. We will be paying for this new government debt for many years.

I wonder how much it will cost after the interest on the bailout debt is added in?

[Lilith]

I'm not antagonistic. I'm giving you a chance to make a better choice before I make it for you.









There is no doubt that this will cost us more than the $700,000,000,000. What has it already cost us in the eyes of other nations?

I'm trying to prepare my students and my own kids for the hard times to come but they have no background knowledge to attach to. I reference books we've read on the Great Depression but fact/historical fiction have cause blurry literary lines.

What do you all anticipate having to do without or doing differently? Have you already begun being more frugal?

I know I will be making (http://www.frugaldomme.com/manufact/) sex toys on the cheap ;)

[Coaster]

Well, this is a slightly different topic so if you want it elsewhere Lil, feel free.

An email I just recieved......



I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.



Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in

a We Deserve It Dividend.



To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000

bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.



Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman

and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..



So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.



My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a

We Deserve It Dividend.



Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.



Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.



But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.

A husband and wife has $595,000.00.



What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else



Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks

who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company

that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.



If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out

a puny $1000.00 ( "vote buy" ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.



If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!



As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.



Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.



Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."



But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!



How do you spell Economic Boom?



I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion

We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.





Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

[Scarecrow]

Thats what I said, the 'Trickle Up' approach

[jseal]

I am unsure that the bailout itself will force any change of lifestyle. I think that both energy and potable water will be less abundant or more expensive in the future.

[Scarecrow]

Everything goes up and the world still revoles around the sun. Prices just go up faster than wages. All the bitchin' in the world will not change that. And the greedy will take all they can.

[Lilith]

Coaster, interesting email. I trust that we could indeed solve the issues ourselves.

[jseal]

Coaster,

An amusing alternative! TY.

[dicksbro]

I like Coaster's approach. Let's elect him as our next President. :)

Heck, what if we extended the whole $700,000,000,000 to the same solution. That'd be better than a chicken in every pot. :D

[PantyFanatic]

Coaster, I think it was a politician/MBA/Wall St policy maker that sent you that email with the new math. They have a problem with the decimal point when it is the $$$ being sent to US. They only double check it when it is what WE have to send it to THEM.
By my old math method, (8.5)(10^10) / (2)(10^8) = $425.00. After that 30% tax, $297.50 is what would be in your pocket. :shrug:

[osuche]

Another cut at the math....

the US household population in 2006 is 291,332,841 (http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ACSSAFFFacts?_submenuId=factsheet_0&_sse=on)



Which brings the average payment per house hold to $2402.75 per household BEFORE TAX. After tax, that's about $1680.

So, the question is....what would you do with $1700? If you used this money to pay on your mortgage or credit cards or car loans, then you'd be basically giving it to the same people who needed bailing out.

Do you think this method is better than giving it straight to those companies, or does it functionally make a difference?

[rabbit]

Short for neo-conservative...another one of those tags created by the "liberal media", no doubt :wink:

:huh:


ahhh...got it. Thanks.

[Coaster]

Thanks.... I didn't check the math!!!! It was an email that I just forwarded!

Osuche, I guess the only difference would be that I'd owe them less money if I were using it to pay down a bill. Now our taxes will go up to pay off this debt.

Now instead of it taking 5 months pay to settle our taxes it will take 6 months!

[Scarecrow]

Read my lips, No new .....................

[dicksbro]

So, the question is....what would you do with $1700?

PAGAN 09!! :D

[jseal]

A bit of a bad scene in the House. The bailout/rescue plan was voted down by 228 to 205 votes. Not one of Congress' better days.

[gekkogecko]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/financial_meltdown;_ylt=AsoVPQE3ZhDme0dP5YjBVeGs0NUE

summary: the US House of Representatives, by a vote of 228-205, has rejected the $700bn bailout bill.

The Down Jones industrial average immediately reacted by 777 points, the absolute worst one-day drop, in terms of points. It is worth noting however, that in terms of percentage, it is not worst than either the crash in October, 1987, or in October, 1929.

[Oldfart]

In a system based on confidence, this is a catastrophy.

[PantyFanatic]

The system based on confidence has left us confident that for the last decade, the manipulators of the money somebody else made, will stuff their pockets to bursting with it, then try to replace it through their buddies with the key to the tax coffers.

I'm confident they will get it too. :(

[WildIrish]

I understand the need to cut costs and make sacrifices so I'd like to offer to provide my own paint stirs for Lilith's dungeon of homemade sex toys and bdsm devices.

[jseal]

A generous soul!

[PantyFanatic]

I believe the fair thing would be for Halliburton and the Six Sisters to float a quick $trillion$ to keep all the peasants doing their bidding.

[jseal]

On a practical note, the Senate has the opportunity today to move the rescue/bailout package forward. Let us hope that at least there we will find enough bipartisan leadership.

[dicksbro]

I did notice that the oil market raised prices in hopes the government does go another trillion in debt. :(

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081001/oil_prices.html

[PantyFanatic]

That ^^^ sure makes me want my government to give money they don't have to the people who's greed screwed this up. I can't wait for them to keep the price of my gas going up. :rolleyes2

[Lord Snow]

Gas around here is going down. It dropped two cents in one day. Granted it's not as fast as it went up, but it's something. However I love the "we deserve it dividend idea". I sure could use that much money and I know just about everyone else could as well.

[dicksbro]

Our gasoline prices have dropped to ($3.46 is the lowest I've seen), but oil per barrel climbed $4.00 according to the news this morning. I'm surprised that gasoline didn't jump. Usually it goes up when they hear a camel stubbed it's toe. :(

[jseal]

dicksbro,

It is interesting to watch the various markets change and twitch as a spending bill this large moves through the Congress.

I also noticed the fall in the DJI as well as the oil price when the bailout legislation (now being referred to as crisis legislation) failed to pass in the House. Now that a revised draft of the legislation is scheduled to be voted on in the kindlier Senate, where passage is more likely, both the DJI and oil prices have ticked up a bit.

Just goes to show how carefully government market interventions must be to avoid inadvertently creating new problems when correcting old ones.

[Scarecrow]

the markets ended up with little or no change today and oil is down about $2.00 a barrel, they are waiting and watching.

[Lord Snow]

It did this with the last bail out proposal. The market was stable and then when it didn't clear it plummeted.

[Aqua]

The 1969 Pixies Lixicon reads:

The Gross Domestic Product is equivalent to the most disgusting meal produced in homes around the US which is obviously Tuna Casserole. So


GDP=Tuna casserole
Ya know, it always comes back to hot tuna doesn't it? :fish:

Ya know what else? 700 billion would build a coast to coast pneumatic tube. I could be at your house in no time. :nod:

[PantyFanatic]

You two will have to go to Canada, China or Russia to be further apart :nod: ......... (and keeping you apart is a good thing)





:rofl:

[Lilith]

PF do you know this chick??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27yitK32ds

[PantyFanatic]

No I don't know her, but I think we both drink the same lake water.


(And you can be SURE no media around here reported on her. ;) )

[Lord Snow]

That was definitely interesting. Don't think it will do much though. Pretty words are just that unless someone can put them into action. I agree. The greedy tycoons that put us in this mess should be the ones to suffer for it. However, the bail out is meant to give businesses the capitol so that they can start borrowing from banks again. Of course that makes it sound like 1929 again. At least it does to me.

[gekkogecko]

Of course that makes it sound like 1929 again.

Again, and again, and again...

[jseal]

1929 Depression
Unemployment: 25%
U.S. Bank Failures: Thousands

2008 ‘Recession’
Unemployment: 6%
Global Bank Failures: Scores

[Scarecrow]

Why will congress not put the blame where it belongs, on those who changed the rules for banking in the 1990's - CONGRESS.

[Lord Snow]

jseal, please define scores. is that hundreds? dozens? that's kind of a nondescript term.

[jseal]

A score is a group of 20.

[Lord Snow]

Okay.

[scotzoidman]

Comparison of 1929 numbers to 2008 numbers is pretty much apples to oranges. It's a much different world now, with more safety nets in place to prevent, or at slow down, the kind of failures that took place in the last century. Plus, the numbers from '29 are "final" figures, with the benefit of historical hindsight. We don't know what the final outcome of the "crash" of '08 will be...




...yet.

[jseal]

I agree. The US Depression of 1929 – 1933 was so enormously greater than the ‘recession’ of 2008 that they have little in common.

I also think that with sufficient ineptitude Congress can turn the latter into something approaching the former.

[dicksbro]

I also think that with sufficient ineptitude Congress can turn the latter into something approaching the former.

LOL! I think their motto is, "If it ain't broke, we'll send it back to committee."

[PantyFanatic]

So where does the US Treasury go after committee? :confused:

[Lord Snow]

Down the drain? Oh wait, you said treasury not treasure.

[dicksbro]

Haven't checked further but they were just talking on the news about there being millions of dollars of pork in the "plan" along with many millions targeting foreign investors. Sounds like politics as usual. :mad:

It may be necessary to do something, but it's aggravating seeing how their sleazy politicians go about doing their work. :(

[PantyFanatic]

Sad to say, sleez IS their work. :(

[jseal]

It is good to see that the House has accepted that doing something was better than doing nothing. Better late than never.

[Scarecrow]

Just another $100,000,000,000.00, whats that to congress.

[wyndhy]

Haven't checked further but they were just talking on the news about there being millions of dollars of pork in the "plan" along with many millions targeting foreign investors. Sounds like politics as usual. :mad:

It may be necessary to do something, but it's aggravating seeing how their sleazy politicians go about doing their work. :(
and how they congratulated themselves! i heard a sound bite from one of them saying something like - this is how government is supposed to work, folks. and in the next breath - he was honored and amazed to have been part of this legislation that both parties put aside thier agendas and came together for. especially so close to an election.

uh, hokay, ginormASS.
it's yer job, doof. grats on doing your job one frikking time. i'm so proud of you!:rolleyes2

Comparison of 1929 numbers to 2008 numbers is pretty much apples to oranges.

indeed. i do wonder if so much of the economy relied on short term revolving credit in the great depression, though.

[jseal]

He is a bit late, but President Bush today called for coordinated action by leading industrialized countries to tackle the world wide credit crisis.

[Lord Snow]

Wait, you mean to tell me that our government wants the governments of other countries to help save the world? We're letting them in on our turf? What the hell is going on? What were they thinking? It's our job to bomb brown people, it's our job to rebuild the world, it's our job to run other countries and tell them how they ought to run the governments we give them. Letting them do something on their own is strictly prohibited.

[PantyFanatic]

It's the computer's fault. :mad: That must be how that ^^^ smartass so easily gained the insight in 2 decades that took me over half a century of hard work to get. :banghead:

[jseal]

Lord Snow,

One small qualification, if I might. The United States has been very catholic in its bombing. There remain many Germans and Japanese who remember the USAAF attentions of a few years ago.

[Lord Snow]

PF, I grew up with adults and not many kids my own age. I learned to listen
JSeal, the bombing brown people was actually a quote from the late great George Carlin.

[scotzoidman]

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain, LS...he'll never get the joke anyway!

[jseal]

... the bombing brown people was actually a quote from the late great George Carlin.
Lord Snow,

This does not, of course, change the history. Nor, as I recall, was it a joke - more in the line of a complaint about the U.S. foreign policy.

[Lord Snow]

You are correct, it doesn't change history. Most of George Carlin's act is complaining. Or stating something we all know in a way that makes us think and find it funny. At least the ones I've seen are like that.

[jseal]

Lord Snow,

Yes sir. He was a very good comic.

[PantyFanatic]

Was the philosopher a jester or the jester a philosopher? :confused:

[Oldfart]

Must there be a difference?

[dicksbro]

Did you hear that the exec's at AIG had so much fun at their last "bailout" party that they accepted another 35-billion so they could celebrate again? :mad:

[PantyFanatic]

YES! :mad:

[jseal]

Were they the same execs?

[scotzoidman]

Did you hear that the exec's at AIG had so much fun at their last "bailout" party that they accepted another 35-billion so they could celebrate again? :mad:
I'm still waiting for the punchline.

[osuche]

http://www.theweek.com/article/index/89618/3/3/When_banks_take_a_dive

I think this says it all!

[jseal]

It is encouraging to see that the G7 finance Ministers and Secretaries have pledged to work in unison to respond to the global financial crisis. A bit late, but better late than never.

[scotzoidman]

I'm still waiting for the punchline.

http://www.theweek.com/article/index/89618/3/3/When_banks_take_a_dive

I think this says it all!

I think that was it.

So funny, I forgot to laugh. Really. I did forget to laugh.

[Lilith]

What's the difference between a pigeon and an investment banker????































A pigeon can still make a deposit on a Mercedes :D :rofl:

[Lord Snow]

ba dum dum dum.