American Woman Jailed in Saudi Arabia for Sitting With Man at Starbucks

[Aqua]

(SF)

A 37-year-old American businesswoman and married mother of three is seeking justice after she was thrown in jail by Saudi Arabia's religious police for sitting with a male colleague at a Starbucks coffee shop in Riyadh, according to a report in The Times of London on Thursday.

Yara, who does not want her last name published for fear of retribution, was bruised and crying when she was freed from a day in prison after she was strip-searched, threatened and forced to sign false confessions by the Kingdom's "Mutaween" police, The Times reported.

"Some men came up to us with very long beards and white dresses. They asked 'Why are you here together?'. I explained about the power being out in our office. They got very angry and told me what I was doing was a great sin," recalled Yara, who wears an abaya and headscarf, like most Saudi women.

The men were from Saudi Arabia's Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, a police force of several thousand men charged with enforcing dress codes, sex segregation and the observance of prayers.

Yara says she was interrogated, strip-searched and forced to sign and fingerprint a series of confessions pleading guilty to her "crime," the Times reported.

Yara was visited this week by officials from the American Embassy, who promised they would file a report.

[dicksbro]

And they probably think of themselves as civilized. :rolleyes2

[jseal]

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

[Scarecrow]

(SF)
Yara was visited this week by officials from the American Embassy, who promised they would file a report.


and then they will forget all about her :cuffs:

[dicksbro]

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

I would agree if she had been arrested ... and then turned over to the American Embassy for deportation. Then I could understand that she had crossed a boundry and was no longer welcome.

But that didn't happen. She was strip searched ... bruised ... and an American citizen ... not Saudi. Was she stripped to find illegal coffee grounds? No, they were just dirty old men getting their jollies. Bruised by being hit accidently with a coffee cup. Nope. She was beat by men that probably are afraid of going after anyone that could hit back. That's just uncivilized behavior. Sorry, but that's how I feel.

[gekkogecko]

That's "religious freedom" for you.

OK, actually, it's religious freedom, without the quotes for the Wahhabis.

[Charlie55]

We Americans seen to think that the world thinks and behaves like we do. They don't. She was in Saudi Arabia a counry that puts little value on women. They don't treat woman as equal to men. They don't treat women as we do. If a woman is raped there she is at fault and will be punished. There is no religious freedom there no matter what they may say and we must understand this when we visit there. To them there is only one way and it is their way. As much as we don't understsnd them they don't understand us. I have often wondered what Saudi Arabia would be like without our oil money.

[Oldfart]

Welcome to C21, the brave new world.

[scotzoidman]

Welcome to C21, the brave new world.
Or, as Mr Townsend said...


"Meet the new Boss.

Same as the old Boss."

[jseal]

dicksbro,

You raise an interesting issue: should foreign nationals (“regular old” expats, not those covered by diplomatic immunity) be subject to the same laws governing a nation’s citizens?

In the instance of this American who violated Saudi law in Riyadh, it would appear that your position is “No”.

Would your opinion be the same were a Saudi national to violate an American law here in the U.S.?

[dicksbro]

The point I'm making is that it's not a question of murder, or robbery or something of that order ... and, it's not just a question of someone detained for a cultural infraction. It's the issue of the arresting parties causing bruising to the woman and strip-searching her for an offense of that nature. There appears to be no relationship between being beat and drinking coffee. (IMHO)

If they believed that the offense was that severe, then immediate deportation would have seemed a more logical and ... yes ... civilized answer.

[Neige]

You talk as though the police in America never abuse anyone, dicksbro...

Your culture does not condemn a woman for drinking coffee with a man in public. Theirs does. She was in their country though, and aware of their culture.

I agree with jseal's "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

I must suppose that it's ethnocentricity that makes you say that they are uncivilized (which implies that you believe you/your culture is civilized).

[osuche]

So the man she was with...was he Saudi? Was he also punished? The thing I wonder was whether he encouraged her to grab a coffee with him.....

I almost wonder if the punishment was greater given that she was American. We Americans aren;t universally loved - I've experienced "special" treatment by police forces while traveling.

Being beaten, put in jail for one day, strip searched, and forced to sign confessions sound like scare tactics to me...the tactics of someone who wants to make a point to Americans that they aren't welcome.

My best guess....if she has lived in Saudi Arabia for long enough, she understands the rules. If there was consistent prohibition for getting a coffee with a man, she would not have gone. I bet the rules are enforced only sometimes, and then to varying degrees. There's more to this story than we know, of that I am certain.

[dicksbro]

You're probably right, osuche.

I was just offended by the treatment of the woman believing that the punishment seemed disproportionate to the offense. Apparently, I was somewhat mistaken.

[osuche]

I don't think you are mistaken. By my standards, the punishment seems harsh too.

[jseal]

There are rumors of several unpublished works by the immortal Dr. Seuss. Among them are “Fox in Detox” and “Oh, the Places You’ll Scratch and Sniff!”. The greatest one, in my opinion, is “You’re Different and That’s Bad”.

How different do people have to be to be “bad”? Do the French qualify by passing national legislation which prohibits Muslim girls from wearing headscarves? Gauche perhaps, and certainly unconstitutional by American standards, but Bad? Certainly the National Socialist German Workers Party qualifies as sufficiently different to be Bad.

But how ‘bout dem Saudis?

Here is another “Saudi special (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7239005.stm)”, brought to you by those fun-luvin guys from Riyadh! :D

[osuche]

Different isn't necessarily bad. I'm relatively open-minded.

However, rules should be widely published, consistently enforced, and punishment should also be consistent. Assuming these principles weren't violated, I'm willing to say that the lady knew the punishment and deserved it.

[dicksbro]

You talk as though the police in America never abuse anyone, dicksbro...

Your culture does not condemn a woman for drinking coffee with a man in public. Theirs does. She was in their country though, and aware of their culture.

I agree with jseal's "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

I must suppose that it's ethnocentricity that makes you say that they are uncivilized (which implies that you believe you/your culture is civilized).

You've stretched my condemnation of a few people who stripped and beat a woman for a condemnation of all Saudis. That's not true. And, it is true that some Americans have committed terrible acts ... police, soldiers or ordinary citizens. But, in my experience, when caught, most are brought to trial and, if convicted, punished. That's what should happen. And, BTW, I would be willing to call them uncivilized, too.