Press 1 for English

[PantyFanatic]

I am wondering what other Pixies opinion is on the multilingual issue for the USA. I personally, am not confronted to any great extent with the topic until I pickup the phone and reach an automated callee. :hair:

My logistics have only brought me into contact with actual bilingual requirements/laws where I have no say. While I have a personal opinion, the legal language issue is a small part of that situation and the business of another country.

In my location, we have always had (and still do) strong pockets and neighborhoods of various cultures speaking many different languages, but have never been required to speak/read it personally nor has my local society as a whole. I VERY much envy and respect people that speak more than one language but I'm not sure how to feel about the 'demand' that one society or country adopt the language of another's.

Europeans have long had the exposure to many countries and languages on one continent with each maintaining their own language. This has also brought the inspiration to become versed in other languages but without forgoing their own.

I think it is very good for everyone to 'accommodate' new people within our society, but should we modify our society to theirs? Are we being slow to accept globalization? If so, what parts of the global smorgasbord do we adapt to our mixing pot? Do we base it on current migration trends? Is geographical distance the dictator of how we evolve? Should retro history be the deciding factor of what language is spoken in the USA or should it be regionalized? :rolleyes2

What are your thoughts about this You Tube clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0)?




*throws down the stick and runs from the pot*
:doorpeek:

[scotzoidman]

* picks up the stick & chases after PF to beat him with it...

[maddy]

What I find more frustrating is after pressing 1 for English, I end up with someone who is speaking English but I can't understand them as their accent is not an American one. I recently had a horrible encounter with a gentleman who swore he was in Cleveland and I had to finally articulate that I understand what a power button, coaxial cable, and network cable are, but what I could not understand was his accent and that is why I continuously was needing him to repeat himself.

I apologized and said please pass me on to one of your co-workers who speaks as if they are born and raised in Cleveland please. He seemed none to pleased with me and I don't think he was in Cleveland either as I had to be put back through the automated voice prompt hell to get another live person.

[scotzoidman]

What I find more frustrating is after pressing 1 for English, I end up with someone who is speaking English but I can't understand them as their accent is not an American one. I recently had a horrible encounter with a gentleman who swore he was in Cleveland.
I'm guessing that he was in Cleveland, India ;)

[PantyFanatic]

Maybe there is a Cleveland in the Philippines I don't know about. :rofl:

[Booger]

maddy maybe this was his problem http://pixies-place.com:81/forums/showthread.php?t=31445

[Shadozfire]

One of the major problems of out-sourcing is that they do NOT want you to know it has been out-sourced. Unfortunately, the individuals on the other end of our call are told to fabricate where they physically are located. Sheesh god forbid we call and can't decipher one of the "dead" languages and then get billed an enormous amount for the call as it went beyond the Scope of a Tier 3!!!!!

[Oldfart]

Didn't we work out once that the USA has no legal language, leaving it open to answer telemarketers in Swahili or other joyous japes?

[dicksbro]

Used to be people came to our country because they wanted to be a part of it ... not because they wanted to transplant their own national customs here. Not sure exactly when that changed, but, I must admit ... I wish it'd change back. :(

[Lilith]

I didn't get to see the you tube but I live in a state with a very high rate of ESL. I have no problem with pushing 1 for English. I appreciate businesses that provide Spanish speaking assistance or options for the members of my community that need it. Otherwise I would be waiting in line for 9384573895739857397 days while the migrant workers in the front of the line try to make a transaction. Smart businesses provide faster service and making language accommodations so that can happen, is a great idea to me.

[Oldfart]

I think we worked out that it didn't matter what language they spoke at home, so long as they could communicate and embraced the freedoms and tolerance of the adoptive country.

[IowaMan]

I've always thought that if I were to move to another country that I'd want to make certain that I had a grasp on their language before I got there. It just seems like the common sense thing to do to help make things a bit easier for me to adapt to their culture.

The issue with calling a business for tech support or customer service and speaking with someone that speaks very broken English is a tough one for me. Having been a manager in a credit card call center it was of the utmost importance to me that the customers be able to understand what the representatives were saying to them. Very rarely would we have a primarily Spanish speaking rep working on the English speaking queue or an someone with a limited grasp of Spanish on that queue. That was simply to make the communication between customer and representative easier.

Interesting song though.

[gekkogecko]

As a general rule, I am greatly in favor of providing non-english services within the country. However, there is one exception...

If you are going to obtain a job in this country wherein you must deal with the public, the majority of which speaks english, then you really should learn and use english.

A real-life example of why:

More then once, I step up to the counter at a sandwich place, and very clearly, in my native toungue, ask for a specific list of ingredients, an then gotten something that resembles nothing like what I ordered. Most often, not only does this provide a great inconvenience for me, but also includes stuff that will *actually endanger my health*. Even after I specifically and clearly enunciated that these ingredients would endanger my health, and that's why I wanted them omitted.

Oh, and BTW, if you're going to give me the standard "you, GG, are a typical arrogant american" rant, you can go fuck youself. I happen to speak three languages other than my native one, so I get to trump your spurious counter-aggument before you get to make it.

Someone once told me that if I feel threatened by someone else's culture, language or customs, thaen that makes me a bad person.

No, actually, it's that person's line of argument, which basically boils down to other people have a right to threaten me with their cutlure, language or customs, which makes them a bad person.

And the truth of the matter is, this is the only time that I do feel threatened by other languages. And other than that, I really don't care what someone's language habits are, or what their culture is, or what is often brought in as a somehow related (dont' ask me) argument: I dont really care about a recent immigrant's immigration status.

[jseal]

I was born into the common myth that there are two groups of countries in the world: monolingual and bi/multilingual. This changed after my family moved to Dar es Salaam, in the Tanganyika Territory, then a Crown Colony. English was the language of the elite, of any race, Swahili was spoken by anyone who needed to get things done, and Hindi was spoken by the East African Indians, who dominated the business class.

I sometimes hear at work people claiming that countries in the west are monolingual and the third world is riddled with languages and dialects making them multilingual. This POV is, I believe, based on the traditional proposition of “a race = a culture = a language”. But those claims do not hold up under scrutiny. Take England for example – from whence came our mother tongue. A community in which both Cockney and Standard English are understood can hardly be labeled a monolingual (or homogeneous) society. I cannot resist referring here to the good Prof. Henry Higgins’ “Why Can’t the English Teach Their Children How To Speak (http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/w/whycanttheenglish.shtml)”.

Multilingualism is not only true through space, but also across time. Following the successful Norman invasion of England, French became the “prestige” language. Thus the very words that we use today – in English - to describe what we eat, are shot through with French! The Anglo-Saxon farmer might bring a “cou”, a “pigge”, and a “sheep” to market, but by the time the meat was presented to his French speaking Norman lord, it had become beef, pork, and mutton. In Medieval England, apart from the regional dialects, Latin, French and English were spoken by various groups.

My experience has been that multilingualism is and always has be the norm in the world, and monolingualism the exception.

[osuche]

I'm not fluent in any other language, but I understand and speak a smattering of 4 other languages. I enjoy multiculturalism - I want to learn about others' cultures and customs and I value the meltiing pot that is the US. Heck, I even have my own personal melting pot at home. ;)

Providing language assistance is crucial, and I am happy that more and more US businesses are doing so. My husband speaks a language which is the 6th or 7th most common in the world, and many of the immigrants from his region cannot get access to health care where their doctor can communicate with them. My MIL works as a translator for critical care issues.

I think it's sad - part of the American Dream is opportunity for all. Opportunity is hard to come by when you cannot communicate.

Yes, I believe that generally immmigrants should learn English - but if this is a gradual process, that's OK too. In th einterim, we need to support their integration into American culture with language services, as well as other services.

[Scarecrow]

My problem is that some immigrants have been in this country five or more years and still can not order a sandwich in english. And then the tax payers of the US have to pay millions of Dollars so that same person can read a legel document. Yes keep your native cultures and language, but learn after time to communicate in the common language of the area you are in. When I was in a foreign nation for 3yrs over 30 years ago I had to learn enough of the language to function dailly

[themi01]

Being somewhat in the Customer support industry I can tell you for a fact 50 % of all support calls overflow to Bangalore India

[Steph]

And then the tax payers of the US have to pay millions of Dollars so that same person can read a legel document.


I wonder how much the City of Toronto has to pay for the 64 or so languages they use for mailouts, etc.

http://www.toronto.ca/diversity/poster_gallery/welcome_large.jpg

Even though my city (and others in Canada) spend tons of money for translation services, my company still gets letters from people complaining their language isn't on mailouts (for some reason, some people think a newswire sevice is like a news agency so they call/email us to complain). What's the cut-off point here? Are we supposed to translate every document into every language in the world?

I've worked in call centres and have been in training groups with trainees who don't speak the language and am often surprised at how long they last. I can understand their need for employment but if they can't speak the language, it's just going to frustrate the customer, as gekkogecko showed.

Our sister company in the States has outsourced their Operations dept. to Bangalore and most calls are hopeless. It takes so long to communicate that I wonder how much money they're saving by outsourcing. The weekend before last, I had to give up on trying to get an answer from them because I just couldn't understand what the guy was saying to me. I got a call later from their Cleveland office asking if my problem was solved. How is that saving money, I ask you? Why couldn't I just talk to an English speaker in the first place?

There was a hilarious Call Centre Movie link but I googled it and it says the service is unavailable. It was awesome so if you're interested, perhaps try googling it again later to see if it appears again.

[Irish]

What is happening to us???????

Subject: We have lost it!!!


Denver County Traffic Court


Hopefully, you have an opportunity to read this e-mail regarding the utter frustration we, English speaking Americans, experience on a daily basis, and

this will go beyond just an e-mail.

This experience happened to my wife April 1, 2007, in Denver County Traffic Court , Denver , Colorado .


She had to appear in traffic court as a result of a speeding ticket. She was speeding, and knew she would have a fine to pay. We have no problem with that. However, the rest of the court experience is something we should all stand up and take exception to and ask what is happening to the United States ?

She was asked to be in court by 4:30 PM, and she complied. When she arrived

it was announced all non English speaking persons, with traffic violations, would be taken care of first. The reason was the interpreter leaves every day at the same time and does not stay late. So a reward for not speaking English is one gets to go the front of the line

Next, the non English speaking individuals do not have insurance and/or driver's licenses. Never was it asked why they did not have licenses, what they were doing to get licenses or insurance. What they were given for driving without a license was a $35 fine. Since many of them did not have $35 they were also given payment terms. So, they are granted another reward for not having the money to pay their fines.

My wife, who was born in Denver , Colorado , raised, and lived here all her life, was given a $249 fine for her speeding ticket. She was not given payment terms, and had to wait until all the non-English speaking aliens were treated first.

If I understand this correctly,



* Let's never require non-English speaking individuals, who live in this country,

to learn English.

* Let's never require they become citizens of this United States of America .

* Let's never require they get driver's licenses and pray they never kill someone on the road with their driving.

* Let's never require they get automobile insurance, so all of us who do will pay higher and higher premiums for non insured driver insurance.

* Let's make sure those of us who are injured by these individuals pay higher and higher health insurance premiums.

* Let's make sure those who pay their fines, pay big ones to subsidize all those

little $35 fines on payment plans

* Let's make sure we never inconvenience them and let's never inconvenience

the interpreters in this country who may have to work late.

Our Country is eroding every day right before our eyes. No country in the world has ever survived having 2 major languages. We are heading down that path. Irish

[Scarecrow]

Just read the new book out,


The Rise and Fall of the United States

writen by congress

[PantyFanatic]

I think I'm reading that book too, SC. I get one page at a time every night on the news. :banghead:

[scotzoidman]

It takes so long to communicate that I wonder how much money they're saving by outsourcing. As soon as those pesky annoying customers get the idea & quit calling, they can save a bunch by not having any so-called "customer service" at all...who do we think we are, expecting business to care about customer satisfaction?

[PantyFanatic]

.....expecting business to care about customer satisfaction?
Another American antique.

[Belial]

That anyone dealing with the public should be required to be able to be understood by the majority of that public is just plain commonsense. To be honest, I haven't had many problems understanding accented English from a wide variety of places (very occasionally I will have to ask them to repeat something but that's it), but I can understand that many would. That companies choose to skimp on this is very customer unfriendly and ultimately unproductive.

I would also not object to mandatory English classes for migrants provided the requirements weren't too onerous (eg: costs them more than they can afford, requires them to meet a standard far beyond native spearks in their adopted country, etc).

However, I don't really see the problem with pressing 1 for English. All that means is that there's options and English is the first one. I would certainly rather that incredibly tiny inconvenience than no options at all.

[Cheyanne]

Some of you may find this link interesting...

http://www.diversityalliance.org/docs/Chang-aztlan.html

and then google Nation of Aztlan

If you have a moment read this and watch the video...
http://www.fulldisclosure.net/Programs/468-469.php

Most of what I have researched and read have to deal will illegal immigration and not legal immigration. Most, if not all, who follow the process and go thru the correct channels to immigrate to the US legally make an honest effort to assimilate themselves into our melting pot and that includes learning the language. The desire to achieve the American dream that they read about with our Ellis Island immigrants who assimilated into the US is their goal. While the people of the US are more accepting of their culture now rather than they were then, and are wanting them to retain their heritage and want to embrace & learn about it, we (collectively) have expressed our (representing) outrage of having (we) to assimilate to the new wave of illegals entering our country. We know that there are all types of nations representing illegal entry, but since the majority of what we experience are from Mexico and further south, that is what we concentrate on. That, I believe, is why there is such outrage and concentration on our Mexican citizens and nationals rather than Canadians... or any other immigrants (illegal or legal).

(ME) - when I have to read a sign to locate the restroom in small town Iowa that is printed in Spanish first and then English second (we) have a problem. We have hispanic students in our school who wear Azlan colors and T-shirts. As of this year, we have a total of 769 students (small school) and 34% of them are hispanic and 22% of them are 7th grade or higher who cannot speak or read English to the point where they can function in a regular classroom. Special teachers and classrooms have to be scheduled and are slowly taking away space from the regular classroom/teachers. We have 3 teachers who are teaching Social Studies, Math and Health off a cart as they don't have a classroom.

One student, who has been in the district for 5 years, set fire to a locker last year and nothing could be done as he and his parents couldn't communicate with school officials without an interpretor so due process was out the window, and since we are "required" to furnish him an education as he was under the age of 16 and considered special ed, he was able to come back after a 3 day out of school suspension.

I believe congress is fooling themselves on this issue as well in relation to illegal immigration and terrorism. I believe congress is turning a blind eye toward how illegal immigration effects the US economy and the services provided to its citizens as well as wage/insurance/health care issues in relation to illegal immigration.

*Steps down from soapbox and gives it a mighty kick.*

[Belial]

As soon as those pesky annoying customers get the idea & quit calling, they can save a bunch by not having any so-called "customer service" at all...who do we think we are, expecting business to care about customer satisfaction?

http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/apathy.jpg

[LixyChick]

The one thing that bothers me most with this bilingual thing is this...

Our ancestors came to America and with great pride dived into the difficult task of learning the language. English, in it's purest, is a hard language to learn what with same meaning/different spelling and vice-versa..etc. But then Americanized...well, it's trying even for "native borns" today! But, our ancestors did all they could to "become American".

I feel like we have made immigrants lazy today by making it so easy to never have to learn the language with the bilingual signs and phone options...etc.

If I were transplanted to a country that didn't speak my language I would go out of my way to learn what I needed to know to at least get by till I could fully master speaking to the natives in their language! I couldn't stand not being able to communicate. And I've a feeling I'd be avoided till I could state my case in word instead of trying to make them understand me.

When in Rome...yada, yada, yada!

So yes...I do feel put out for all the time it takes to get through a phone call these days. Yes...I do feel like more trees are being destroyed to list all the directions in a booklet instead of just 1-2 pages. <--- OK...that isn't the most reasonable example but it's crossed my mind. Yes...I do think outsourcing is in default if the employees can't speak clear English...etc., etc., etc.

I would love to be multi-lingual...but I'm not. And even that English was never proclaimed official, it's still the language of the land. I spose I'll adapt in time. But really...why should I adapt and those who don't speak the language not have to?

[PantyFanatic]

.....However, I don't really see the problem with pressing 1 for English. All that means is that there's options and English is the first one. ......
I believe that is one of the points in question. Shouldn't the first 'option' be to accommodate what is not the 'standard'? "press 1 for (anything besides English)......." :shrug:




As for Cheyanne's references, I'm going to be chewing on them for a while.

[scotzoidman]

Belial, I love those "demotivational" posters from Despair.com ...& I when I made that post, I was thinking of them, & Dilbert comics as well...

The "press 1 for English" issue can be divided into 2 parts...one is the ever increasing illegal immigrant aspect, which is clearly the hot-button issue of the day, & has been flogged thoughly to death on the talkshow circuit...the second part is that it's just 1 step in the way businesses today try to deflect customers away from bothering them...any call I have to make to Comcast when my cable or internet service goes down starts with the "POFE" message, followed by the "press 2 for Espanol" (in Espanol, of course...maybe the one thing that makes any sense at all), followed by entire sets of other options, until I start to feel like a circus animal jumping thru pointless hoop after hoop...

I can see how business feels that it must make some concessions to reality, that to ignore such a large potential customer base is like throwing money out the window, but...it seems to prove to old saying that to try to make everybody happy you end making nobody happy...