cheating...a time and place for all things

[souls_cry2000]

I know many here at Pixies have a slight sexual obsession. So I'm possing a hypothetical for you.

(I watch the show Cheaters alot on G4.)If you are in a relationship in which sex has stopped for a very lengthy period of time. Would you cheat on your S/O and how long do you think it would take for the most monogomous among us to actually do so? If you wouldn't then what would it actually take for you to cheat?

[Loren]

If sex has ceased for a long time I have a hard time seeing it as cheating.

[IowaMan]

Lots of variables to consider when trying to answer those questions so I guess it's easiest for me to contemplate if I just focus on the sex having gone out of the relationship aspect.

It really depends upon the individuals involved as to what the "limit" would be of going without sex. Then there's the question of whether the love is still there. Personally, I do believe that it's possible to be in love with more than one person at a time but there's a sort of filter in our hearts/minds that keeps many of us monogamous. Sometimes that filter is easier to let down than at others. So yes, I do believe that somewhere inside each of us we hold the capability of cheating on our partner.

For me it would have to be some sort of extraordinary circumstance for me to cheat, even if the sex was gone from the relationship. Not really sure what that circumstance would be but I do know I wouldn't be able to just decide, "Okay, I need to get laid. I'm going to cheat on her today." That's just not me. I can't answer how long a time it would take for me to get to the place where I decided I needed someone else. No idea at all. :shrug:

[mara]

If I was in a relationship where the sex had stopped for a lengthy period of time, I'd think I'd be asking myself some very serious questions. Sex is so important in a healthy relationship, and if it was to cease then that would be an indicator that the relationsip is in serious trouble. Rather than cheating on my SO, I'd try to see if we could work through the issues, and if that didn't work...I'd break it off with him. Then, I wouldn't have to cheat.

[Loulabelle]

If I was in a relationship where the sex had stopped for a lengthy period of time, I'd think I'd be asking myself some very serious questions. Sex is so important in a healthy relationship, and if it was to cease then that would be an indicator that the relationsip is in serious trouble. Rather than cheating on my SO, I'd try to see if we could work through the issues, and if that didn't work...I'd break it off with him. Then, I wouldn't have to cheat.

^^^^^Perfect - that's exactly what I was about to say.

[Jude30]

Here's what Dan Savage, my favorite sex advice columnist has to say about it.

"But here's a pro that's rarely acknowledged: Sometimes cheating can save a long-term relationship. Sometimes only cheating makes it possible for a sexually rejected partner to stay in a relationship that's worth preserving for other good, valid reasons—like kids, for instance. And sometimes only cheating makes it possible for a person whose partner has a chronic, debilitating illness to stay put and stay sane. In these cases, cheating isn't just the right thing to do; it's the only decent and honorable thing to do.

Some fuckwits, of course, piously insist that Cheating Is Always Wrong. To the CIAW crowd, I say this: Fuck you, you self-righteous Pollyanna fucktards. I'm sick of CIAW types insisting with one breath that sex and sexual exclusivity are hugely important. Even the contemplation of an affair, to say nothing of its consummation, represents an unforgivable betrayal. And then in the very next breath, CIAWers insist that sex is so unimportant, so colossally trivial, that a person should be able to go without—forever!—if their mate is unwilling or incapable.

You can't have it both ways, CIAWers. If sex is hugely important then people can't be faulted for wanting some; if it's unimportant then it shouldn't be seen as a huge betrayal when some poor fuckers, under duress, get their needs met elsewhere.

That said, SOTS, I'm not gonna give you a pass. You're not done with sex, he's not dying, you don't have kids—cheating under your particular circumstances can't be justified. Regardless of what happens with your co-worker, you need to end this relationship. You're not attracted to your boyfriend emotionally or physically, and you don't have the kind of entanglements—biological or durational—to rationalize a fuck buddy. Do the right thing, SOTS, and break up with this guy."

[cherrypie7788]

It would depend on why the sex stopped!!! If it was just because we weren't "clicking" then I think I would seriously consider ending the relationship before I cheated. If he was unable to have sex, like due to an illness or something, then forget it, I'd never cheat.

[Loulabelle]

Ah but if sex IS important, then it should be had only with the person you love, or not at all....and if it ISN'T important, why risk losing/hurting someone you love for the sake of it?

[Oldfart]

Cheating is a state of the heart, not a measure of how wet your dick got.

Mind you, I wish my relationship with my partner left room for others, but her head's not built that way so it would be cheating.

Put another way, if your partner walked in on you in bed with another and it didn't bring a smile to their face, it's probably cheating.

[osuche]

I'm with the wise man right above me. ;)

I'm not naturally monogamous and I think the idea of monogamy is, frankly, silly. But the man I choose to spend my life with feels differently, so I play by the rules. To do anything else would just be disrespectful.

[ReaperWoman]

If the sex had stopped in our relationship and we still were very in love and wanted to stay together but felt sexually unsatisfied, then I would talk to my OH about "cheating" though I don't think it can really be called that when you both agree that it's a good idea. But if the idea didn't go down well, then further actions down that line would feel like a betrayal. And if I was the one frustrated and my OH said "no" to me being with other people, then it'd be down to me to weigh up how important sex was compared to my relationship with my OH.
I don't think I could ever be with someone other than my OH without him knowing and understanding why, i just wouldn't be able to go behind his back, look him in the eye and lie about it. Not without experiencing some extreme depression because of it.

But that's just my :2cents:

[Lilith]

Oldfart and Osuche speak for me too!

[souls_cry2000]

These are some very valid points. I'm glad that many felt like posting even though the circumstances leading up to the decision to cheat were not laid out clearly.

I think that all avenues should be explored before making a drastic decision such as cheating. One thought I had on the circumstance didn't involve a person who just felt like a change or some irreconcilable difference in the relationship. I was more aiming at a situation in which a partner was happy in their relationship but had lost the inclination toward sex (like those cases we have heard of where everything is fine but a couple hasn't had sex in years and feels no urgency to get back in the saddle).

[Jude30]

Ah but if sex IS important, then it should be had only with the person you love, or not at all....and if it ISN'T important, why risk losing/hurting someone you love for the sake of it?

If it's not important why would they be hurt? They would only be hurt if it was important to them and if it's important then they should understand the need for it.

You cannot have it both ways reread what I posted from Dan Savage.

[Wicked Wanda]

I didn't read all the posts already written, because I wanted to make a very specific point, and not be swayed by anyone else.

Cheating means, at the most basic sense, telling a lie.

My sexual proclivities and appetites are pretty well known here. I have tried monagamy, and hated it. (my marriage). It turned out I was the only one practicing mongamy, and I ended up with an STD. (my only one)
So my decision was not to ever do it again. But I NEVER EVER EVER will pretend otherwise.
If a person enters into any kind of relationship with me, they have to know from the begining that it will be an open relationship.
Trust is everything. If I promised not to do something, such as fuck anyone else, then I wouldn't. But i don't see myself making that promis again.
If sex has departed your realtionship, then there are much deeper issues tha have to be addressed.


WW

[gekkogecko]

^^^^

[themi01]

If you Feel you need to cheat there is something wrong .... get with your OH and talk it out

[themi01]

P.S. Basically I'm agreeing with W W

[rabbit]

Personally, I do believe that it's possible to be in love with more than one person at a time but there's a sort of filter in our hearts/minds that keeps many of us monogamous. Sometimes that filter is easier to let down than at others.


This, in a nutshell, has always been my tug-of-war...my tendency to have strong feelings of affection for more than one at once. I am not naturally monogamous. I have trained myself to be that way, essentially for the same reason Osuche explained...to do otherwise would be dissrespectful.

[Loulabelle]

If it's not important why would they be hurt? They would only be hurt if it was important to them and if it's important then they should understand the need for it.

You cannot have it both ways reread what I posted from Dan Savage.

I don't need to reread it thank-you. He was arguing exactly the same point as me - that some people say it is important and others say it isn't. His argument is that either way, it's ok to cheat, my argument is that either way it's not.

You're argument doesn't stand up. Here's a specific example:

Personally, in my marriage I think sex is very important, but we don't have a great deal of it at the moment - Fussy didn't find me particularly sexy during my pregnancy and now we have a young baby sapping our energy. However much I understand the need for sex, I would not tolerate Fussy cheating on me, since, as others pointed out, cheating is deception. If we were in an open relationship, then sex outside of it would not be cheating and to use the word in those terms is just being lazy with the English language.

It's a very male (sorry to generalise, but it's true) assumption that the actual act of sex is what causes the harm in a relationship. In fact it's usually the lies and the humiliation of it which hurts the most.

[WildIrish]

I think loss of intimacy is a much more contributing factor to cheating than loss of sex drive.

But I've always felt that intimacy is more important than sex anyway, so it might just be my way of validying my point.

[cavegirl]

In fact it's usually the lies and the humiliation of it which hurts the most.

I would agree with this - a few years ago my first boyf cheated on me with my best friend - and the lies and humiliation I felt was much worse than the actual physicality itself (although that did hurt a lot). I think the fact they tried to cover it up, despite the fact I'd seen them having sex was the worst thing - and having to face them and all our other friends after was pretty horiffic.

[Irezumi Kiss]

I was both a cheater and a cheatee. Didn't feel good either way, in the long or short run...and I ain't planning on going thru THAT shit again!

I'd rather share a third person before I feel the need to cheat. If I'm with someone else, then I hope my partner feels the same. If we can't do that, then forget about it. I'll let it be known there are levels of fun within sex I can deal with, but we gotta do it together, or there's no point in being with someone.

So my decision was not to ever do it again. But I NEVER EVER EVER will pretend otherwise.
If a person enters into any kind of relationship with me, they have to know from the begining that it will be an open relationship.
Trust is everything. If I promised not to do something, such as fuck anyone else, then I wouldn't. But i don't see myself making that promis again.
If sex has departed your realtionship, then there are much deeper issues tha have to be addressed.
This almost made me set to ask you for your hand in marriage, WW...but then I realized that it's prolly "counter productive" in the context of things! :blink:

[Jude30]

I don't need to reread it thank-you. He was arguing exactly the same point as me - that some people say it is important and others say it isn't. His argument is that either way, it's ok to cheat, my argument is that either way it's not.

You're argument doesn't stand up. Here's a specific example:

Personally, in my marriage I think sex is very important, but we don't have a great deal of it at the moment - Fussy didn't find me particularly sexy during my pregnancy and now we have a young baby sapping our energy. However much I understand the need for sex, I would not tolerate Fussy cheating on me, since, as others pointed out, cheating is deception. If we were in an open relationship, then sex outside of it would not be cheating and to use the word in those terms is just being lazy with the English language.

It's a very male (sorry to generalise, but it's true) assumption that the actual act of sex is what causes the harm in a relationship. In fact it's usually the lies and the humiliation of it which hurts the most.

You are misreading what he and I are saying, then.

To the "Cheating Is Always Wrong" crowd sex is both simultaneously so important that one should never cheat because of the hurt feelings of the cheated on and so unimportant that people should happily live without it.

It cannot be both which is exactly what you are saying it is. Either that or you are not communicating your point very well.

In particular you need to reread the last paragraph of his I posted since he's quite clear that it NOT OK for that particular person to cheat, and they should break it off. So he is NOT saying it's always OK to cheat.

[Loulabelle]

To be honest, I think you're misreading what I'm saying, but since I only had 61/2 hours sleep last night, and since I've pretty much averaged that for the last 113 days, I really can't be bothered to bat this argument back and forth Jude.

You underestimate my intelligence and ability with the English language if you think I don't realise he's saying it's not always OK to cheat.

However, every time we have sex with someone we run a risk of pregnancy or catching an STI. Even if condoms are being used (I mean would you have sex with someone with HIV, even if using a condom? I wouldn't dare) that risk is still there. Even if you've been sterilised pregnancies do still happen.

A worst case scenario:

Say my husband decides that he is justified in having extra-marital sex for whatever reason, because sex is important to him and he's not getting it at home - maybe because I have a serious illness or disability. The person he happens to sleep with is HIV positive (his partner hasn't told him, because she doesn't know, or she chooses not to disclose it, because, sex is important to her too, and she's can't get any when she tells people she has HIV.) The condom splits and my husband becomes infected, which is passed to me, during his daily caring routines. He has a cut finger from preparing my meal and in the process of helping me wash my privates, giving me my daily shot, changing my colostomy bag....whatever it may be...he passes the infection to me leaving me free to pass it onto our kids, other family members etc etc.

Or maybe he just risks giving my son a half sibling, so that he now has to share his father's time and financial resources with another child.

Sex has consequences, therefore it's important to know whether your partner is monogamous. It's naive and ignorant to think otherwise. Sex for the sake of physical pleasure alone is trivial and therefore not an acceptible reason to risk a meaningful relationship.

The point is, the unfaithful party is choosing to take the risk of sleeping with someone who may or may not have an STI, or creating another life in this world, the person who is being cheated on has no choice as to what they are being exposed. That is WRONG and you can't argue with that.

[Natures Gift]

I think loss of intimacy is a much more contributing factor to cheating than loss of sex drive.

But I've always felt that intimacy is more important than sex anyway, so it might just be my way of validying my point.

I totally agree with this.

[Jude30]

Why is it more wrong for a person to cheat than it is for one partner to completely deny the other physical companionship? If sex is sooooooo important then the person not giving it up needs to understand that their partner needs and give it up occasionally.

I get that you feel sex is important and I happen to agree with you. I agree that there are consquences and dangers. You are ignoring the other side of it though in this case. That being what I just said above, if it's important, then it's always important and you can't expect your partner to happily live without it just because for what ever reason one partner doesn't feel like having sex.

[Loulabelle]

With all due respect, Jude, now you've changed your tune completely! The person you quoted made it clear than extra-marital sex was only permissable in cases where there was a justifiable reason for there not to be sex in the relationship (i.e.illness etc) and that in the case of the person who wanted sex elsewhere just because they weren't getting it at home, they should sort it out or split up, NOT have sex outside of the relationship.

And just for the record, there isn't much sex in our house right now, and that's HIS choice, not mine, so I'm speaking as one of those 'sexually deprived' people, who, in your view would be justified in having sex outside of my marriage.

[WildIrish]

Pick me!!!


Pick me!!! :D

[Loulabelle]

Hahaha - thanks for the vote of confidence WI. Love ya x

[WildIrish]

I'm hearing ya Lou.

Just because someone doesn't feel like having sex, doesn't mean their partner has the green light to stray. Real reasons for not being able to make love must precipitate discussions and reasonable accomodations.

But sex is a barometer for other things. When one partner is withholding sex from the other, it's because there's a reason. Fix that, and the sex will return.

If the partner is not willing to attempt a fix...then the relationship should be questioned.

[Jude30]

With all due respect, Jude, now you've changed your tune completely! The person you quoted made it clear than extra-marital sex was only permissable in cases where there was a justifiable reason for there not to be sex in the relationship (i.e.illness etc) and that in the case of the person who wanted sex elsewhere just because they weren't getting it at home, they should sort it out or split up, NOT have sex outside of the relationship.

And just for the record, there isn't much sex in our house right now, and that's HIS choice, not mine, so I'm speaking as one of those 'sexually deprived' people, who, in your view would be justified in having sex outside of my marriage.

Where have I changed my tune? My stance the entire time has been the same. That being that people who say cheating is ALWAYS wrong cannot have it both ways when it comes to the importance of sex. It is either an important aspect of the relationship or it isn't. If it's important then it's important enough to provide on occasion even when you may not feel 100% into it because your partner needs/wants it. If it's not important then you shouldn't feel bad when your partner looks for it else where.

When my wife was pregnant we were unable to have sex. After losing two children her OB told her she wasn't even allowed to have orgasms because of fear of losing another baby. She could have taken care of my needs through oral sex but that seemed to me to be unfair to her since that tends to arouse her and I figured it would be cruel to get her turned on with no way to release. And since she spent the last seven weeks of her pregnancy lying in a hospital bed that led to some logistical problems as well. So I went pretty much the entire seven months of her pregnancy without physical affection from my wife. And from anyone else for that matter.

If she could have taken care of my needs I know she would have, and I know she felt bad for not being able to. As I felt bad for her because she did get horny in that seven months and there were times when she wanted the affection as much or more than I did.

To be honest I thought about cheating and I had offers. But in the end I couldn't and wouldn't hurt my wife in that way.

I wouldn't judge another person in the same situation if they cheated though. That's between them and their partner.

As far as your situation goes where he's perfectly capable of performing but isn't I wouldn't judge or blame either. Again it's not my place.

[Loulabelle]

Ah but it's NOT between them and their partner if their partner doesn't know it's happening!

I've said it before in this thread but I'll say it again - having sex with someone other than your partner with their permission is not cheating - the act of cheating, by its definition involves deception, not a decision made as a couple for one or both parties to have sex outside of their marriage.

[Oldfart]

Cheating is a "me" thing, not an "us" thing and you can't do "us" and "me" at the same time.

I am such a tart that cheating is a natural part of me, but the pain it causes the person/people who trust/s you isn't worth the gratification.

When the trust is more important to you than the genital buzz,there's no conflict.

When the genital buzz is more important, forget the idea of a relationship.

Easy!

[dicksbro]

Cheating is a "me" thing, not an "us" thing and you can't do "us" and "me" at the same time.

When the trust is more important to you than the genital buzz,there's no conflict.

When the genital buzz is more important, forget the idea of a relationship.

Easy!

OF, I think you've summed it up very nicely. :boink:

[Loren]

If she could have taken care of my needs I know she would have, and I know she felt bad for not being able to. As I felt bad for her because she did get horny in that seven months and there were times when she wanted the affection as much or more than I did.

To be honest I thought about cheating and I had offers. But in the end I couldn't and wouldn't hurt my wife in that way.

I wouldn't judge another person in the same situation if they cheated though. That's between them and their partner.

To me this is a different case--it's an externally imposed and temporary restriction. I don't think such a situation justifies cheating.

[Sweet-n-Sassy]

I just read this article before checking out the boards today....

http://men.msn.com/articlebl.aspx?cp-documentid=4096355&GT1=9212

[Sweet-n-Sassy]

Ok... Now I've read all of the posts and I'm in the camp that says cheating is only when deception and lies are part of it. I think there can be cheating without sex. This would be more devestating to me than extrimarital sex. I could handle it if my OH had sex with someone else for a purely physical reason - assuming that there was some reason that I couldn't do it for him - but I couldn't handle it if he were emotionally and spirtually involved with someone else. That would be a long term thing and I would be really hurt if he felt the need to get that connection outside of our marriage. I understand that the physical can be long term too, but it would not as big of an issue for me. I guess I'm more open to sharing physically than emotionally. :shrug:

[marval]

Well,good question.
We all know what the bible(God) says about premarital sex and adultry lets assume that He's right okay and lets look at a country that followed his will in that area; we have no more sexual issues in this country, 100%percent of all the sexually transmitted diseases in this country are gone. rape, child molestation, murder, homosexual issues, gender issues a huge % of our divorce rate and many of our emotional problems and issues are traced back to sex, all of this is gone.
I was talking to a nurse friend of mine she told me that their is a disease that they are transferring not by vaginal sex, but by oral sex and kissing (if you have the virus). They are having oral sex because it's not sex. (I wonder what president in the 90's made that thought a reality???) The disease gets in the lungs and over the next 5 to 10 years will kill our kids.
What if I am nuts and that all this is Bullshi_, what if it is nowhere near that bad? Could it be in ten years? Well take a look at the progression of these sexual issues over the last 50 years and see how these cases have increased and gottenworse year after year after year.
Question: Time or place for cheating ? I say hell no, cause you could kill yourself or somebody if you do.
What happens if im wrong, and their is no God or God does not care what we do. Even if that is true, isn't abstinence and monogamy the very best choices
for us and everybody? Why cheat, work on the relationship and if yu still have sexual issues after some serious work than maybe divorce is the right thing to do.
I not trying to am not judging anyone cause my past is just as attractive as yours and some worse. But it just seems like common sense to me, and having some self control.

[WildIrish]

What seems like common sense to one is foreign to others. We're all wired differently.

Some would view cheating as a way to save a marriage.

[Loren]

Well,good question.
We all know what the bible(God) says about premarital sex and adultry lets assume that He's right okay and lets look at a country that followed his will in that area; we have no more sexual issues in this country, 100%percent of all the sexually transmitted diseases in this country are gone. rape, child molestation, murder, homosexual issues, gender issues a huge % of our divorce rate and many of our emotional problems and issues are traced back to sex, all of this is gone.

Except that it should be obvious that biblical standards for sex aren't acceptable to people.

Simple, telling fact: Virginity pledgers have just as high a rate of STD's and unwanted pregnancies as those who don't take such a pledge.

I was talking to a nurse friend of mine she told me that their is a disease that they are transferring not by vaginal sex, but by oral sex and kissing (if you have the virus). They are having oral sex because it's not sex. (I wonder what president in the 90's made that thought a reality???) The disease gets in the lungs and over the next 5 to 10 years will kill our kids.

What disease is this???? I sure never have heard of anything like this, but I have heard of a million fabrications by the anti-sex crowd.

What if I am nuts and that all this is Bullshi_, what if it is nowhere near that bad? Could it be in ten years? Well take a look at the progression of these sexual issues over the last 50 years and see how these cases have increased and gottenworse year after year after year.

<Looks, doesn't see.>

There's *ONE* disease that's gotten worse--HIV. That's because it only made the jump from monkeys recently. (Perhaps it made it before but the area consisted of small tribes and didn't have enough population to maintain an infection and so it would have died out.)

Question: Time or place for cheating ? I say hell no, cause you could kill yourself or somebody if you do.

The biblical repression of sex is far more likely to hurt someone. Note all the pedophile priests.

What happens if im wrong, and their is no God or God does not care what we do. Even if that is true, isn't abstinence and monogamy the very best choices
for us and everybody? Why cheat, work on the relationship and if yu still have sexual issues after some serious work than maybe divorce is the right thing to do.

Cheating is never a *GOOD* thing. That doesn't always mean it's worse than ending a relationship, though.

[ndmore]

i have been married 33 years the last 12 my wife had been living with a illness that has take away our sex life the last time i had interrcourse was with and internet friend (female) of course about 2 years ago and the wife knew of it so i don't feel that it was cheating.

[Loulabelle]

Good for you and your wife for making good choices. I agree that being honest with your wife and her giving her consent for you to have sex with someone else cannot be considered 'cheating'.

It proves that there is a real, workable alternative to deception when there are extenuating circumstances preventing one partner from having sex.

[ReaperWoman]

When I posted originally I said "cheating" in inverted commas because what I was referring to was sex outside the relationship, and did not involve the deception and lies of cheating.

I don't think lying to or deceiving your partner in order to have sex is acceptable under any circumstances. Like Sweet'n'Sassy said, it doesn't even have to involve sex to be regarded cheating.

[scotzoidman]

Well,good question.
We all know what the bible(God) says about premarital sex and adultry.
Except that what "we all know what the Bible says" is not really what the book says...what people think they know is actually what a bunch of priests & rabbis have told them what it says, & very few can be bothered to go back & check the reference. For example, how is it that monogamy is all that God condones, yet most of the heroic figures of the Old Testament (all men of God, it says here) had many wives & concubines? I could go on for quite a while picking this post apart, but I see that Loren has done a pretty good number on it already, & I'm not one to flog a dead horse...but I did want to make at least this one point...

[Loulabelle]

Reaperwoman - don't worry, your comment was perfectly clear...to me, at least. What you said is exactly how I'd play it too, if I were ever in that situation.

Scotz - You're right of course - the most famous example is probably that of Jacob and his many sons, of whom Joseph (and possibly Benjamin, but I'm not sure on that point - can't remember exactly) was his favourite as he was born of his second and favourite wife. They were sisters and he was tricked into marrying the first one by his father-in-law.

[WildIrish]

That marriage doesn't count cuz he was tricked. :p

[Oldfart]

"We all know what the bible(God) says about premarital sex and adultry "

Damn you Scotzoidman to the lowest reaches of Lilith's wine cupboard for taking my point.

The bible talks about adultery, but if neither person is married, it's not adultery.

Didn't Solomon have 1000 wives?

[Jude30]

Noone has mentioned my favorite. Lot was the only righteous man in Sodom, but he committed incest with his daughters.

[WildIrish]

Didn't Lot's daughters get him drunk & take advantage of him?

[wyndhy]

sure, blame the women, but it was that stupid serpent. he had to go and be all ... eat the fruit. it's fiiiiiine.

[WildIrish]

Don't look at me...I didn't write Genesis! :p

[wyndhy]

duh-uh. the holy spirit did. and it's all true. every word. even the contradictory ones. which makes sense when you think about it. holy/holey. it's all very logical.

[Loren]

Didn't Lot's daughters get him drunk & take advantage of him?

Yup. Incest and rape are good things according to the good book.

Should we really be surprised at all the priestly misconduct??

[WildIrish]

Well, they did it because they had just witnessed what they thought was the beginning of the end of the world and they were trying to continue the family name.

[scotzoidman]

Damn you Scotzoidman to the lowest reaches of Lilith's wine cupboard for taking my point.

Only the merest beginning of payback for the number of times you've beaten me to the punch by condensing what I wanted to say into a few well-chosen & insightful words. :banghead:


It just occurred to me, you don't suppose there's a cask of Amontillado down in that cupboard?

[scotzoidman]

That marriage doesn't count cuz he was tricked. :p
By that stardard, my marriage shouldn't count either...


...I was assured there'd be a lot more sex on the other side of "I do"...

[Loulabelle]

LMAO @ Scotz. That's a common scam - I fell for it too!

[WildIrish]

...I was assured there'd be a lot more sex on the other side of "I do"...


Ah yes, a common ploy.


I believe it's called "Switch & 'bate" :p

[scotzoidman]

:rofl:

[Aqua]

It just occurred to me, you don't suppose there's a cask of Amontillado down in that cupboard?
I'll take Poe references at sex sites for $1000, Alex. :p

[Booger]

Ah yes, a common ploy.


I believe it's called "Switch & 'bate" :p


Wouldn't that be "Switch & Masturbate" WI?

[WildIrish]

Wouldn't that be "Switch & Masturbate" WI?


mastur = ' :p

[Booger]

mastur = ' :p


Is that what ' is I've seen it all around and wondered so how dose it work can"mastur"t, don"mastur"t, won"mastur"t, and I"mastur"ve or at the end of words like doin"mastur", thinkin"mastur" talkin"mastur" and livin"mastur".

[WildIrish]

My English teacher would be so proud if she could see me now. :D

[marval]

a lot of things were done in the old testament that Jesus condemned in the new.
you can pick out many things in the old testament and justify it today, they were not against the law then until Jesus did away with it in the new.
Listen I dont want to get into a Bible argument with anyone okay, God has clearly given us all FREE WILL; but , their is a consequence of it. Good or bad, right or wrong it is OUR choice.
Oral sex is still sex and it can kill you obviously.
Syphilis in lungs is the STD.
Screw some acts of preachers, priest and holy men in all religions and faiths just cause they may do it does not make them RIGHT, it makes them HUMAN.

Is monogomy the BEST choice,
or is anything you want the BEST choice?

Choose just my opinion, I'm done.

[Neige]

These are discussion boards, marval. That implies discussion of your posts.

Syphilis can be treated - with frequent STD testing there is no reason why it over the next 5 to 10 years will kill our kids. Why aren't you worrying about HIV? It is transmissible by oral sex, and there is no cure.

We all know what the bible(God) says about premarital sex and adultry lets assume that He's right okay and lets look at a country that followed his will in that area; we have no more sexual issues in this country, 100%percent of all the sexually transmitted diseases in this country are gone. rape, child molestation, murder, homosexual issues, gender issues a huge % of our divorce rate and many of our emotional problems and issues are traced back to sex, all of this is gone.

Without premarital sex and adultery, STDs would still exist : most of these are not transmissible only by sexual contact.

And what good can repressing sexual orientation do?

[Loulabelle]

Kinsey found that there were an awful lot of 'God's will' abiding married Catholics who had enormous problems with sex, since the sense that "sex is bad" was drummed into them so strongly they were unable to perform normally sexually.

A woman who knows NOTHING of sex or her own sexuality until her wedding night is unlikely to find it an enjoyable experience and her equally ignorant husband will find it difficult to give her an experience that will change her perseption. She'll end up 'tolerating' sex for the sake of fulfilling her 'wifely' duties and we end up in a situation where sex within the marriage bed is tantamount to rape - who knows, sexual frustration for the husband due to lack of proper emotional fulfillment from sex with an unresponsive partner could even lead to sexual abuse within a family or homosexual tendancies as a way of finding physical relief.

At the end of the day, we cannot 'switch-off' our sexuality just as we can't 'switch off' our need to eat. What we can do, is recognise that and be more open to discussion of our physical needs within our relationships, so that we do not have to lie and cheat on a partner who trusts us.

[scotzoidman]

a lot of things were done in the old testament that Jesus condemned in the new.
you can pick out many things in the old testament and justify it today, they were not against the law then until Jesus did away with it in the new.
Funny, that argument has a very familiar ring to it...oh, yeh, I remember now, it was the same line my mama pulled out every time I pointed out the glaring contradictions in the Bible...so, if the old law is out, & we only go with what Jesus said as true, why do we still keep the Old Testament around?.
Listen I dont want to get into a Bible argument with anyone okay.
You brought it up, cuzzin....

God has clearly given us all FREE WILL; but , their is a consequence of it. Good or bad, right or wrong it is OUR choice.
Oral sex is still sex and it can kill you obviously.
Syphilis in lungs is the STD.
Screw some acts of preachers, priest and holy men in all religions and faiths just cause they may do it does not make them RIGHT, it makes them HUMAN..
I never meant to say that they were right...my point is that the Bible is a flawed document, (did he really say that!?! :eek: ) written by flawed humans, edited by same, & has been used & abused by the worst scoundrels to justify the worst impulses of human nature...to the point that your statement, "we all know what God says" cannot be true, because so many that THINK they know what it says are just vomiting up the corrupted interpretations of some demogogue...

[Oldfart]

Scotz

"It just occurred to me, you don't suppose there's a cask of Amontillado down in that cupboard?"

There was untill one dinner just before PAGAN06, when some bastard Aussies ran out of plonk.

The Bible is a translated collection of translations of translations of documents of Jewish religious, social and cultural lore and history. Whether it is the written essence of the Spirit or a more mundane but still relevant (for some) document is a matter of faith and as such is open to discussion, not debate.

[WildIrish]

That depends on what you mean by the word "is". :p

[Oldfart]

Enough to have used it 4 times.

[rtctfield]

Don't look at me...I didn't write Genesis! :p


It was Noah's daughter's; not Lot's.

By the way, the whole Lot/incest thing. He didn't commit incest. He offered his daughters to the townsmen because they wanted to have their way with a male visitor of Lot's who just happened to be an angel. I know, call me a Bible scholar.

Just because Lot made a very, very bad mistake, that still doesn't mean he wasn't righteous. Thankfully, I'm not profoundly classified as good or bad based on one or more of the epic mistakes I've made in my life.

By the way again, cheating on my wife, thankfully, is not one of those epic mistakes. But goodness knows the temptation has been there.

[WildIrish]

It was Noah's daughter's; not Lot's.


Gen. 19:31-38 :confused:

[rtctfield]

You're right, WildIrish! Sorry for getting my stories confused...


Wish there was a "foot-in-mouth" icon.

[divot109]

There are some great answers in this forum! If the sex completely stopped happening, I'd have to question "why?". I'd re-evaluate the relationship and then make a determination...fight to save it, or end it!!! Cheating IS NOT an option in my book!!!

[citrus]

I know many here at Pixies have a slight sexual obsession. So I'm possing a hypothetical for you.

(I watch the show Cheaters alot on G4.)If you are in a relationship in which sex has stopped for a very lengthy period of time. Would you cheat on your S/O and how long do you think it would take for the most monogomous among us to actually do so? If you wouldn't then what would it actually take for you to cheat?Truth : Untruth
I see a difference one to the other. Cheating is relative to Untruth as Faithful is relative to Truth.
I cheated. My dishonesty exposed my betrayal of our vows of faithfullness wrecking my marriage. Later, when all truth had finally been revealed and my treachery was fully known, I was no longer compelled to cheat. By then I could express my desire to have an affair with a man I knew.
My wife chafed, chagrined spoke out loud, "Do what you want to do." My man friend his wife and I, made love and enjoy each other's sexual energies.
My wife and I made love again and again throughout the times of my open extramarital bisexual affairs. But, my failure to control and seek sensual/sexual balance in my ravenous sexual appetite is the cause of my bringing destruction to my marriage. Had I known or been willing to get polyamory advice about honesty and openness, I might still be married and my sensuality/sexuality with other persons and couples outside my marriage would continue openly with full approval of my wife.
She loved me. But, I had already broken the faith, betrayed her trust in me. She stoodfast. Betrayed, she wanted me to choose. Her, or more sex. We eventually divorced.

[flutelady]

I know many here at Pixies have a slight sexual obsession. So I'm possing a hypothetical for you.

(I watch the show Cheaters alot on G4.)If you are in a relationship in which sex has stopped for a very lengthy period of time. Would you cheat on your S/O and how long do you think it would take for the most monogomous among us to actually do so? If you wouldn't then what would it actually take for you to cheat?

My marriage had deteriorated to the point of zero sex, zero intimacy, not even "hallway sex" (you know, passing each other in the hallway and saying 'fuck you'). After being married more than 20 years, after almost 5 years with no sex or intimacy, I began to cheat. Several years and several affairs later, I finally left the marriage. Why did I take so long? A combination of things, but mostly I don't think former-hubby cared about what I was doing, it was easier to stay than to leave, and I hadn't yet met anyone who inspired me to want to deal with divorce and the resulting fallout.

I'm not proud of myself for having done the things I did, but I do have a very different perspective as a result. I now have zero tolerance for cheating (within my own relationship), and, having formerly been a world-class liar, I won't buy any excuses or bullshit stories, as I've probably used them myself. Burn me once and we're done. Period.

Maybe I'm a hardass about it because I've been there and did it sooo well. Nope, I'm not proud of the things I used to do, but I have come clean with family and God and I'm not going to that place ever again. If my relationship ends up sexless as well as intimacy-less, and I can't live with it, I'll end the relationship before starting something new. I would owe that to him as well as to myself.

[cherrypie7788]

I have cheated in the past. And, honestly, it was because the person I love the most (who I am with now) and I split up because of family differences and I started dating another guy. The guy I'm with now came back around and we started talking on the phone and the next thing I know...the boyfriend takes a trip and I went out with my "ex" and could not keep my hands off him. I was so happy to see him.

It's not something I am proud of. But as someone else before me said, cheating is a statement that comes directly from the heart, not the body. I didn't cheat because I was horny, I cheated because I didn't love the guy I was dating, at least not as much as I am with the "ex" whose child I am currently carrying (not from that incident of course, as that was long ago lol).

They say once a cheater, always a cheater but that is not true. Would I ever cheat on my guy now? Hell no, I would not.