The politics of fascism

[gekkogecko]

Yesterday, the US Senate fully and gleefully participated in the biggest step undertaken so far to dismantle the rule of law in this country. If you wern't paying attention, the law which was passed by the House earlier thismonth, and by the Senate yesterday (with some minor ddifferences, to be worked out in committee in a few days) allow:

[Note that the following is largely the re-wording of a summary posted in an entirely different forum from a friend of ine]

Agents of the US government to listen in on you and watch you without warrant or notice; gives the government permission to enter your home and take what they want without notifying you and without judicial oversight; to beat, handcuffed, and jail you without being charged; also, the government may request your reading list from the library and the library is not allowed to tell you that you're being spied upon. (Many libraries have taken the step of wiping the records of patrons after books are returned.)

You are no longer protected against unreasonable searches and seizures. If in some way you appear to be associated with someone the Administration does not like, you may be arrested without warrant, held indefinitely without charges, and denied admission to your own trial -- if you get a trial, for some have been held for years without one. You may have an attorney, but his meetings with you may be overseen and overheard by officials, and you may not be allowed to see the evidence against you. If you appear to be associated with someone the Administration considers to be a terrorist, all of the above apply; further, you will be tried before a military commission, not a civil or criminal court, and you will have no recourse to civil suit for damages then or afterward.

If the President or his Administration wish it, you may be tortured by your own government's soldiers or information officers.

By earlier action, you may pray, but your religious group's application for government money for a faith-based social program will only be awarded if it adheres to specific varieties of Christianity. Otherwise it will not.

However, you may keep and bear licensed weapons. (I don't think that's changed except for requiring more licensing).

[gekkogecko]

No, both the Administration and its supporters have made the outright claim that the provisions of this bill will not apply to US citizens. (Note that "this bill" does not grant all of the powers outlined above; those are a collection of powers granted by a range of laws enacted in the name of "fighting terrorism".)

"This bill" is the one allowing torture, detention indefinitely without trial, secret trials with heresay evidence, and witht he prosecution withholding evidence before a military court.

Given that the range of powers already granted to an out-of-control POTUS have *already* been applied to US citizens, what are the chances that these additional powers *won't* be applied to US citizens?

Given that the current administration started a foreign war on the basis of a huge range of lies, and continues to lie about both the purpose and conduct of that war, what are the chances that these additional powers *won't* be applied to US citizens?

And BTW, dont forget that the foundations for subverting the power of the peoples' vote have already been laid. There is some evidence to suggest that actual subversion/manipulation/outright voting fraud have already been committed, although I'm personally not convinced that there is enough evidence (yet) to state outright that it has been. But the methods and hence, the possibilities are in place.

If voting could change the system, it would be illegal. if not votintg could change the system, it would be illegal.

Of the many methods of changing the system that exist, which do you find are the illegal ones?

No, I'm not advocating the violent overthrow of the US government; I'm merely predicting one.

[WildIrish]

I don't have a problem with someone wanting to be able to listen to me, watch me, capture & hold me indefinately without charges, torture me & listen to conversations with my lawyer.

In my pea-sized mind...there's not really a lot of exposure. I doubt someone will deem me a terrorist for driving back & forth between home & work. I have my doubts that anything I say, think or do could be viewed by anyone as anything other than what they truly represent...the maniacal ravings of a dumbass.

But don't fuck with my porn.

If, by protecting my God given right to see boobies & cummy pussies, the above mentioned governmental practices become deemed unauthorized...well, that's fine with me too.

I'm WildIrish, and I approve of this message.

[wyndhy]

i gotta say i don’t think that a violent (or otherwise) overthrow of our government is at all likely, and it would be even less likely than that to succeed. impeachment perhaps. what makes you think that a bloody coup d’etat is eminent here, gg, and who's gonna do it?

[osuche]

It scares me that our freedoms can so easily be abused. I don't trust the goverment to look out fo rmy best interests.

[gekkogecko]

i gotta say i don’t think that a violent (or otherwise) overthrow of our government is at all likely, and it would be even less likely than that to succeed.


Gotta agree with you Whyndy, I don't think it's at all likely to succeed. There's not enough organization among the myriad anti-government groups, nor enough unity of purpose, IMHO for it to be successful. I mean, given that the term "anit-government" can cover anything from right-wing reactionary militias to extreme militant communists, you can see where I'm coming from here.

Politics does indeed make strange bedfellows, but the last time a communist organization with major amounts of power got together with a fascist organization with major amounts of power (The Nazi German/USSR pact just prior to the launch of the Second world War), it proved disasterous to both sides in the long run, although not as disasterous as it did to a western-style democracy in the shorter run (Poland). I don't see that happening in this country anytime soon.


What makes you think that a bloody coup d’etat is eminent here, gg, and who's gonna do it?

I don't think it's actually imminent; I was talking a longer-term trend. Probably not predictible in the details, just in the broad scope.

[Scarecrow]

Someone over throw the government. They can't even take the time to vote. All people want is for the government to give everything for nothing. I will live in my little corner and hope the whole world does not go BOOOOOOM. Not enought people give a damn anymore and the easiest way to tell is there bad manors, its the first sign of decline in a society and it has been going down hill for 30 to 40 years. IMHO part of this country died with JFK and we have never recovered.

[jseal]

For those who may be interested, the legislation referred to above is the Military Commissions Act of 2006 (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:S.3930:), S.3930.IS

The BBC has a reasonable report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5390848.stm) on the subject. They also have a decent background story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5391314.stm). Note the concluding sentence.