Gay fairy tale sparks outrage

[Fangtasia]

Story here (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,18923274-23109,00.html)

Way to go for gay fairytale!!!

[scotzoidman]

Gay Fairy Tale...sounds kinda redundant to me...

[Steph]

Gay Fairy Tale...sounds kinda redundant to me...

LOL

The teacher didn't tell the parents . . . I can kinda see where the controversy stems.

[LixyChick]

LMAO@scotz

"Protecting the children" is always used as the guise for uptight adults and their own insecurities and phobias.

So what do the parents think? Little Johnny wants to grow up and be "queen" now that he's heard the tale?

LONG LIVE THE QUEEN!

[gekkogecko]

Long Live ^^^^'s Av!

[osuche]

Ah...but here's the sad truth....gay fairy tales often don't have happy endings....especially when the majority of the US population is full of homophobic a**holes. :(

[Oldfart]

It was a confronting thing to do, but if the union of same sexes are legal, then there has been no breach of law.

The problem is that things like that are seen as advocating the alternate lifestyle, rather than just illustrating it.

I think, on points, the parents have a win on this one, but it is by no means clear-cut.

[Pita]

Sounds right up my 14 year olds alley. She has a facination with all things gay now adays. Not that there is anything wrong with that. ;)

[jbh3]

Let the fags eat cake.

[bare4you]

From what I heard on the evening news, this is not the first time this school board has allowed/encouraged something like this. Either last year or the year before they sent the kiddies (I think in first grade) home with a bunch of books. One of the books was about a gay lifestyle. When asked about the choice of books, the reply from the school board is that they were just trying to educate the kids about the world they lived in.

The sad thing is - the school board that permitted it the first time around is still there!

I know I'll catch it for my stance, but grade school is not the place to learn of such things. This should be a subject discussed by the parents at their leisure and of their choosing - not as a matter of discussion against their will and without their knowing.

[Oldfart]

Where can you draw the line of separation between home and state?

Wherever you do, someone'll always know better.

[wyndhy]

i'm torn on this one.

as for myself, it wouldn;t bother me in the least. my daughter and i have played house using two mommies or two daddies, and it doesn't stop there; we try to teach her tolerance in all things (and will with the tiny tyrant when he's old enough to get it and we do now, i suppose, just by the very nature of the way kids learn through observation.) but the school, knowing that this is a highly charged and sensitive topic, pulled a fast one. they didn't read a story about gay bashing, and, that's "part of our world", too. (although i suspect some of the parents wouldn't have minded that one so much:(). so their reasoning is a bit faulty.

on the other hand, when parents begin (as seems to be the trend here in the US) handing over more and more of the raising (as opposed to just the education) of their kids to teachers, then it's up to the educators to step up and take responsibilty for producing an entire generation of kids who will use their powers for good, not evil. and parents need to sleep in the beds they've made.

heinous is much too strong of a word, and the argument that is was sex-education (and therefore required notification) is ridiculous but poor judgement on the part of the educators? yeah, i think so. it wouldn't have taken a whole lot for the teacher to give the parents a heads up beforehand and let the parent(s) decide whether or not to let their child hear the story. i think it was more of the sly, neener-neener-neener, overtones that has the 'rents pissed off. nothing like coming home from work and getting macktrucked into a convo with your little-one that you maybe weren't prepared to handle at the moment that will get those hackles up. not to mention there are religious beliefs that would make this a taboo subject for many. if we are permitted, indeed guarunteed the right, to worship (or not) as we choose, then how can the school just step all over those beliefs by "forcing" parents to talk about it.

quite a conundrum.

[lakritze]

that LixyChick didn't already say. The thinking of the people who would introduce gay litrature into a class room do so on the belief that left entirely to the parents,many of them would teach that intollerance and gay bashing is what is neded to fight something they are afraid of.
Thus insuring a future generation filled with hatered. Are they so far from being wrong?

[Oldfart]

lakritze

It's still people thinking that they know better than the parents, for the good of the children, so that the kids will better fit into the world the teachers think the kids will grow up into.

It's like the medical thing where a patient is grievously harmed to save their life.

It's not a call I'd like to have to make, with too many "on the other hand"s.

I am caught between my moral and civic cowardices.

[jseal]

Alassë,

The school board might be criticized a bit for failing to advise the parents ahead of time that controversial subject material was about to be introduced. It does seem a mite distant and out of touch.

Superintendent Ash’s point is well made – the location is in Massachusetts, where homosexual marriage is legal.

School boards are commonly elected – and unelected – as the Dover School Board recently discovered in re their decision to introduce into a Science class the controversial theory of ID. If there are enough parents who feel strongly enough about the subject to invest the effort to vote the next time they have the opportunity to do so, then the issue will be resolved to the satisfaction of the majority of good citizens.

[Jax]

What that teacher did is unacceptable to me. It lacks common sense and responsability. Something that controversial and that cutting edge for a group of 7 year olds should have had parental buy in first. Who knows, perhaps all of the parents would have said "go for it". The story might be a good one to teach the kids about the bigger world. But to just spring it on...that's not cool.

Consider it from this perspective, what if a teacher told a story about a bunch of niggers talking to a bunch of cunts about how Bill was holding them back... Not exactly something any of us would want to try and explain to 7 year olds.

[Steph]

Consider it from this perspective, what if a teacher told a story about a bunch of niggers talking to a bunch of cunts about how Bill was holding them back... Not exactly something any of us would want to try and explain to 7 year olds.

Er, what? You're using the n & c words as an analogy to a story about gay people? I really don't get your point.

[Oldfart]

I think he's saying that words have power, and that words associated with social issues have special power.

You wouldn't drag very young children into a situation advocating racial or feminist issues, so why would you consider it for gay issues.

I think that's his point.

[Steph]

I think he's saying that words have power, and that words associated with social issues have special power.

You wouldn't drag very young children into a situation advocating racial or feminist issues, so why would you consider it for gay issues.

I think that's his point.

I trust you implicitly, OF, but I still don't get his point:

i) Explaining there are different, healthy lifestyles in this vast world of ours
ii) Perpetuating stereotypes with ugly language for what purpose?

My initial post to the thread tread lightly when I wondered if children of a young age should be taught such grown-up things.

If an authority figure used the 'n' & 'c' words in a teaching situation, I'd show them the power of the fist.

I just don't see the connection & really don't appreciate how Jax just tossed those words so lightly into the discussion. I can SORTA see his point but his reply was kinda offensive to me (& I don't get offended easily. Hell, PF has been one of my best friends for four years.) My children will be raised as feminists (regardless of their genders) & will be taught tolerance for all cultures.

If you could explain slowly to this blonde the "power of words" in this discussion, I'd love to accept your prose.

[Lilith]

I have used the N word in class in a similar context. My students 90% of which are African American are VERY homophobic. They hurl homosexual insults often and then say it's OK because they say they did not call someone gay only that they acted like it. Either way they are using the terms to describe negative attributes to a group of people. So I used the N word to illustrate how if the same types of insults were used in the same way but N was substituted they would be pissed and upset. Then I asked them how they think a gay student or student with gay parents would feel overhearing their insults. I tell them constantly that we don't use terms of disgrace to describe actions attributed to an entire group of people. I have *almost* eradicated both the N word and the homosexual insults from their school language but I know they probably still use them at home.

I know this is not the same situation as reading a book to 1st graders but it is what happens on an older level. At least in my experience.

[Steph]

I have used the N word in class in a similar context. My students 90% of which are African American are VERY homophobic. They hurl homosexual insults often and then say it's OK because they say they did not call someone gay only that they acted like it. Either way they are using the terms to describe negative attributes to a group of people. So I used the N word to illustrate how if the same types of insults were used in the same way but N was substituted they would be pissed and upset. Then I asked them how they think a gay student or student with gay parents would feel overhearing their insults. I tell they constantly that we don't use terms of disgrace to describe actions attributed to an entire group of people. I have *almost* eradicated both the N word and the homosexual insults from their school language but I know they probably still use them at home.

I know this is not the same situation as reading a book to 1st graders but it is what happens on an older level. At least in my experience.

Using the N word perpetuates the N word.

Teaching people that there are gay people in the world is different. The teacher wasn't saying "There are fags who fuck in the ass". That would be shock value.

If a teacher used the N or C word to elementary students, no matter the illustration, I'd be on the school board's steps.

OK, now we're mixing it up . . . you're talking older students, I'm talking younger students. We're talking gay, we're talking colour.

I guess the underlying feeling for me remains -- I found that post from Jax was unnecessarily crude (& I know, I know, I can be the most crude person out there sometimes).

There's another Pixie who jokes about "crack whores" who honest to God literally takes my breath away with his crudeness at times.

[Oldfart]

Steph,

These are all confronting and contraversial concepts for crusty old folk.

7 year old children have no ability to filter concepts through experience, instead placing their trust in their educators, as they have been told.

The authority that commands them to believe their teachers when they tell them that the Earth is round and that George Washington was the first US President carries through to this case, where the kids are being told that this is not only an acceptable relationship, but one to be sought. In effect, they are touting the gay lifestyle.

When grown adults decide to have a relationship without fear or favour, that is one thing,usually good, regardless of the gender pairings.

This is something more.

Words are more powerful than bullets and bombs.

[Steph]

7 year old children have no ability to filter concepts through experience, instead placing their trust in their educators, as they have been told. .

That was my problem when I read the thread. I don't want my kids to learn about life from a teacher, however, I'm sure the teacher didn't call them "fags" or "homos" whilst reading the story.

I know my child will hear those words on the street & I see Lil's point about addressing the fact that older kids are calling each other hurtful names.

My main problem is that Jax just tossed those words out there as if it was equal. I don't think the teacher was perfectly correct in her methods, however, equating it to her tossing the N & C words to very young children was offensive.


Words are more powerful than bullets and bombs.

I agree & I'm stating that Jax was crude. At the same time, I'm attempting to show his post wasn't a good analogy.

[Oldfart]

It would have been better if the tale had shown a mix of lifestyles, showing that there are alternatives.

We'll continue tomorrow. 0330 start so I'll squib and crash.

I'll be interested to see how the thread develops while I sleep and work.

[Steph]

Normal life will show children there are "other" lifestyles". Not every child is going to know that sometimes there are two daddies or two mommies raising a well-adjusted child.

The teacher wasn't calling gay people fags. Why did Jax compare this to niggers and cunts & Bill (Clinton?)?

[Jax]

My analogy was crude, and those are ugly, ugly words (words I do not use incidentally).

What I was trying to say was that while the teacher did not break any laws, would we be giving them 'credit' for enlightening the children if they enlightened them with ugly words or ugly stereotypes? Probably not. But those words are legal and the topic would 'make kids think' and be seen as fair game. So why is the one okay and the one not? Just because of the passion of the teacher?

The teacher needed to think through this a bit more before just doing. That's all I'm trying to say.

Jax.