help

[packrat]

i think my fiance is fixin to break up with me or is thinkin about it....i dont know what to do. it's making me feel terrible. she still lives at home with her parents annd she goes to college and works. she is stressed out i guess. but last week she went home everyday when she wasn't workin and pretty much had space from me. what should i do? she is just acting like she doesn't want to be with me.

[Steph]

Have you talked to her? I don't know if we can offer any advice . . . was there an event that happened that set off this chain of events?

[packrat]

we got in to an argument last weekend. nothing big, and i thought we had settled it. i just dont understand. i mean i'd do anything for her. i bought her a car and i do the little things. i send her out of the blue stuff every now and then. i'm really caring and i'm never given her a reason for doubting me

[~Da_NufNuffess~]

There is more to a relationship than material things, I would hate it if my partner were to buy me all this stuff, I would think that he's love isn't genuine and that he thinks that he needs to buy my love.
May I ask what was the fight over?
Who's fault was it?
but I think that at the end of the day you really need to talk to her and try and find out what is wrong

Keep us posted!

[Loulabelle]

Sometimes the arguments we have in relationships are symptomatic of deeper problems, not the problems themselves. Women are often much more attuned to the deeper significance of disagreements in relationships than men are.

It may be that your fiancee feels that the issue at the root of your disagreement is still a problem for you or that you've not completely taken on board the point she was trying to make. The only way you'll know for sure is to talk to her about it. If she refuses or tells you that everything is 'fine', you need to insist that it's not; that you don't find her behaviour acceptable and that she's making you feel insecure. This relationship has to please you as well as her, so her saying she's perfectly happy is not enough. You both have to be happy.


On a seperate note, it sounds like you make a lot of effort to make sure she's happy....why do you feel the need to do this? Is it because somewhere deep inside you know that her feelings for you don't run as deep as yours for her? If so, and if this situation is reaching a head, I'm afraid there's nothing you can do to change the situation. All of the gifts and love notes in the world can't make someone love you more than they already do, and such extravagances can often do more harm than good if the stength of feeling is not entirely reciprocal.

As I said before, the only way you'll resolve this is to talk to her.

[packrat]

ok i got everything out in the open today.
let me tell you the story of everything
ok well about a year ago she cheated on me. she confessed and said she wanted to be with me and she felt i should know cuz she didn't want to hide anything from me. so i thought about it and i realized she was well worth giving another chance. so then we started "fresh" i guess. well i've realized that even though i didn't know it, i was still hloding that against her. i have been jealous ever since. and i know im in the wrong for that. well the whole story with the car is that the one she had messed up beyond repair so i did some looking, found one i thought she'd like. so i had her test drive it thinking she was just driving it to be "looking." she really liked the car, so over the next few days she was still looking for one but she didnt have the money to just get one ya know and she couldn't find one she liked. so i thought, you know we are engaged, and i saw it as something i could do for her to show her i would always take care of her, so i went and bought the one she liked. well we have had a problem with sex as i have said in previous posts. i just seemed to want it for than she does. and i bothered her about it too much. well that was kinda what triggered our argument last weekend. today she finally opened up and told me she was thinkin about breaking up because i was too jealous of her and she said i wasn't the same as i used to be. i talked to her and she said that i couldn't really do anything about it cause she didn't want me to change for HER. and she was upset because she said that this has been going on but i didn't catch her hints and signs seeing this coming. well i told her i have been stubborn and pigheaded and that i see it now. she said she doesn't see why it took so much for me to finally see this and thats when i told her i was stubborn like above. then i told her to give me one more shot and i asked her if our relationship was worth givng me another shot and she said if i controlled my jealousy and stuff(sidetrack- i've never went into jealous rages, just so you know) and not bothered her for sex so much. she told me i had nothing to worry about as far as her going anywhere(<--the jealousy part) and that she was faithfully committed to me. she just couldn't take how jealous i was. she said i took her for granted and i believe i did too. i apologized for everything and told her i would control myself if she gave me another shot and she said that she would put her faith in me that i could and now i have this new chance. and that is pretty much it pf so let me know what you all think.

[maddy]

I'm not one for relationship advice, but just wanted to say... take your time, communicate, and enjoy the moment. You have a lot of life ahead of you to spend too much time not living in the moment.

[packrat]

loulabelle i woould appreciate some more advice please....you're very good at it :)

[Loulabelle]

Honestly, I think you take on too much of the responsibility for this relationship. I've only heard your point of view of course, but it sounds like you're doing all the giving.

She cheats on you.

Your trust in her is broken.

The relationship continues but you still feel insecure and jealous (but not to the point of jealous rages)

Your sex life isn't as great as you'd like it to be because she's not so that interested in sex.

She now doesn't like the fact that you're jealous but she doesn't want you to change for her.

*NEWS FLASH* - you've already changed because of her. You've become a more suspicious and insecure person because of her past behaviour ..... probably exascerbated by the fact that she doesn't get as enthusiastic about sex as you do.

If you were a woman I can guarantee that most of the advice-givers on this thread would be saying 'He's not good enough for you, girl-friend'.

Since I'm an equal opportunities busy-body, I'm tempted to say the exact same thing to you. I find it hard to believe that you are the one apologising and begging for a second chance here, when most people would say that it should be her. In cases where the trust is broken in a relationship, it is the 'betrayer's responsibility to earn back that trust, with the understanding that in some cases, it can never be regained. Sometimes, as much as you want to be able to trust someone again, you just can't. If that's the situation you find yourself in, you need to tell her that you need more time to rebuild your trust in her and that she needs to be doing more to reassure you. If she's not willing to do that, or you don't feel capable of rebuilding that trust, then it may be time to accept that the damage she caused early on in the relationship by cheating is irreparable.

She seems to hold all the cards in this relationship, and she's making you jump through hoops just for the honour of being her fiance. Tell me, is she really that wonderful? What is so great about her that you'd put up with being treated like this?

[packrat]

i know it sounds fairy-tale like but i love her plain and simple. i can forgive her for the cheating because i was gone for a few months due to the military. it just took me a while. i am the type of person where it takes me a while to let go of things. i've finally been able to let the betrayal go. i really don't know what else to say. i just love the girl more than anything and i will do whatever it takes to be with her. it's just the connection we have. i have been through a lot of shit in my past relationships. ours means to much to me to let it slip away. i appreciate your honest response. anymore comments or advice would be welcomed greatly. thanks loulabelle

[Loulabelle]

OK, let me put it another way: why do you love her? What was it about her that made you fall in love with her?

[WildIrish]

What is so great about her that you'd put up with being treated like this?



It's that damn golden triangle, I tell ya! It makes us insane! We can't think straight!


Like we are so smart without it! ha ha

[Mark Vieth]

Ok Packrat, I have been in here over the last few days and have seen this thread of yours gain some momentum. Now Lou has asked some great questions, in fact if she didn't ask them I probably would have.

Here's what concerns me the most. The fact that she has already cheated on you once, is putting up little red flags right there. She says that you have become the jealous type and maybe to a point the controlling type, simply because of the fact that she put you in this situation by cheating on you. So you have your trust in her broken, you feel insecure about her and which in turn has turned to jealousy. You go out and buy her things, (whether it's a coat or a car is irrelevant) and what do you get in return??? She shuts you down and tells you that you are stubborn and pigheaded. Also she tells you that "you should've seen the signs". That should be a hint right there for you. Then she tells you that you take her for granted.
What???!!!!
From what I have read from your post, it seems to me that she is in fact taking you for granted. As I said just before, " you go out and buy her things" and what exactly has she done in return?????
It seems to me that she is using a reversing move on you. By this I mean, she knows that she is in the wrong and so she puts everything that she has done wrong onto you and makes you feel like crap because of it. Why should you feel that way because she cheated on you????
The writing is on the wall on this one.

Also if this sort of cloud is over your heads and you followed through with the engagement and got married to her, what then? Marriage is a sacred trust between 2 people. She has already broken that. What's to stop her doing it again when you are married? I'm not trying to feed your axieties here, I'm just putting a little perspective on things for you.

[packrat]

aside from everything i genuinely love the girl and wanna be with her. she said she's giving me a chance. what do i need to do? do i need to back off and give her some space and let her come to me? or what? and by the way i am willing to not have sex at all if it means staying with her.

[Aqua]

Hi packrat. One thing I am curious about is your age. Hers too if you don't mind.

[packrat]

if i tell you age you will base it on that...if i were to say we were anywhere from 20-30 you would give me a different answer than if we were 30-40

[Aqua]

Of course. That is why I asked... it matters.

[maddy]

A few days ago the full birthdate was in packrat's profile... which is part of what contributed to my advice... And I agree with Aqua it does matter... Just as amount of time in the relationship matters to a degree. I can say that I am older than packrat, not probably any wiser. And that I recognize people are all different, but my view of the world has changed as I have aged... even my view of myself and the things I want.

[BIBI]

if i tell you age you will base it on that...if i were to say we were anywhere from 20-30 you would give me a different answer than if we were 30-40

Age does make a difference because with age comes more life experience but I would say what I am saying here to anyone.

You make excuses for her cheating on you because you were away?
You are willing give up sex forever for her to stay with you?

IMO.... Your are being treated no better than a doormat and what is even worse is that you are apparently willing to let her.

A relationship can be healed if both parties are willing to form a union and work on it. Trangressions can be forgiven. Hurt feelings can heal but, if only one person is working on it then it is doomed.

Your first loss of esteem happened when she cheated and it appears that it continues to erode so, maybe you should take some time for YOU and think things through. Maybe go talk to someone impartial who can listen without opining on what you should do. but teach you the tools to help you get through this rough time in your life.

AND of course you can take what I am saying and not give it another thought!

[Loulabelle]

I agree that age makes a difference, but what makes more of a different is emotional maturity.

packrat, I don't know if you're 18 or 80, but what I do know is that you're still pretty young emotionally. Your reaction to the situation you find yourself in is pretty naive. Giving her space or not giving her space is not going to make a difference if she doesn't respect you the way that she should. And in fact, bending yourself to her will is just going to lessen her respect for you further.

I know you are willing to try and change for her, but the question is, should you be? Is it really you who needs to change? Just because SHE says you're in the wrong doesn't mean that you are.

[~Da_NufNuffess~]

Packrat, both Mark and Lou have said some very sound advice from what I can see. Just to shadow what they have both said, if I were in your situation and my s/o was like that, I'd get rid of them before it got to the stage that you find yourself in now. She cheated on you once. That there is an immediate shut out for me. If my s/o ever did that, I'd show him the door real fast and I'd smack his ass as he got the boot out!

[WildIrish]

she said she's giving me a chance.


Wasn't she the one that cheated on you? How gracious of her to give you a chance after something so emotionally difficult to overcome.

[packrat]

we decided to take a short break and think things over...don't know what's gonna happen

[SexKittten_18]

If I were oyu I would take a permanent break =\ nothing good ever comes of one side thinking they're better or more deserving than the other.

[Loulabelle]

I think you've made a good and brave decision to take a break packrat.

If I were you I'd focus my energies now, on building up your self esteem. Do some things that you used to enjoy that perhaps you've not done in a while. We often make compromises when we are in a relationship and unwittingly give up hobbies or friends because we are so wrapped up in the person we're with. If this is the case, now is the time to rediscover going out on a Friday night with the boys/ taking your bike for a ride/ going fishing with your Dad/ playing ball in the park with a good friend or whatever makes you happy.

Fill your life with things and you may find the pain of being apart from her is lessened and even that you don't want to go back to her after your break time is over. This is not a time to sit in your room and miss her, reflecting on what you did wrong. There'll be a time for that if the relationship doesn't make it, and that time will come when you're in a more detached frame of mind a few months down the line, when you'll be able to look at what has gone on much more objectively.

[packrat]

i do want to be back with her. so what can i do during this break to make her want to get back with me

[maddy]

I recommend re-reading Lou's advice two posts up and focuse on YOU during this time and defining yourself as an individual again rather than a part of a twosome.

[packrat]

should i comepletely cut myself off from her? or should i call her or what....

[Loulabelle]

I read an article recently about why people cheat or otherwise lose interest in their partners.

The main way to prevent this happening is to be an interesting person. That means having your own life, your own interests and having different experiences from your partner, so that when you are together you have new things to share with each other. Essentially making sure that you are an interesting person means that you never run out of conversation and you both continue to develop as individuals.

Now I'm not saying that it will definitely work in your case, but certainly your best bet at getting to be back with her is to go out there and grab life by the throat......enjoy yourself and get happy....miserable people really really really aren't attractive.

As for calling her, please don't. A break is exactly that. A break. She's asked for some space from you and that's what you need to give her. You need to use this time to accept that this relationship may well be over and start getting used to the idea that you can't just call her at the drop of a hat. If the relationship is going to work out, she's going to be the one calling you.

[packrat]

well she ended it last night...what do i do now?

[Aqua]

Hang out with friends, do the things in life that YOU enjoy doing, basically whatever you want.

[Loulabelle]

((((((((packrat)))))))))

Aqua's right.....not sure if you followed any of my advice before, but if you did, then you've got a head start in building up your own life without her in it.

If not, then now's the time to start doing what I suggested before. I'd advise against the following though:

1) Getting into a rebound relationship

2) Sleeping around just for the sake of it....at best, you'll find it unfulfilling and at worst you'll end up with a disease

3) Excessive eating, drinking, smoking or drug taking

You must now concentrate on healing yourself, not destroying yourself further with any of the above.

Make a clean break.....delete her number from your phone and don't think about contacting her. If she contacts you, tell her not to. It just prolongs the agony.

Enjoy spending time with people who love you, and concentrate on things you may have neglected while you were with her. Focus on your career goals for a while, or give yourself some new challenges which will give you a sense of achievement.

Don't take out your bad feeling toward her on every other woman you know/meet......it will stand you in very poor stead for future relationships if you do.

Finally, love yourself, don't be afraid to ask for help, and accept that it's going to take time before you feel 'normal' again.

[packrat]

thanks a lot....i appreciate all the advice and now i guess i am seeing things clearly. i believe there is something other than my jealousy that has done this. i have no proof, but i believe a guy could be involved. just a hunch i guess. should i, in your own opinions, take the car back or just get some sort of sale contract and let her pay it out?

[Steph]

The car might have to be a loss . . . you did give it to her, no?

[Loulabelle]

packrat I think you're absolutely right....there is more than your jealousy involved, but don't assume it's another man....she may just feel as though she's grown out of the relationship....it happens.

As for the car, if you're paying for it on a monthly basis, you need to ask her to take over the payments for it. If you bought it outright and you told her it was a gift, or that she did not need to pay you back for it at any time, then I'm afraid you'll just have to put it down to experience. Yes, it's a bummer that you're out of pocket, but we don't give gifts to people we love with strings attached.

If she has any scruples she may offer to pay you for it or offer it back to you, but from what I've heard of her, she probably won't do that. Comfort yourself that a woman with so little sense of what's the right thing to do, is out of your life now.

[maddy]

packrat, if she keeps the car, make sure the title is out of your name. If you retain any ownership to the car, if anything happens involving it, you beome liable.

[packrat]

the title is in my name and she is paying for it monthly. has been since i bought it. i was gonna give her the title when she paid it off.....

[Loulabelle]

Then it's easy....get it signed over to her, and wash your hands of it.

[packrat]

well it's been some time and after talking to her over the past month....man has it been that long.....i've come to a conclusion. the jealousy was a problem....but not THE problem. i think she was scared. not sure, that type of thing. we may end up back together before long...she said she misses our relationship and our commitment. any advice and comments will be appreciated...


oh yea on the car...she offered to keep paying and then said she would give it back....but we eventually worked out a legal plan that will allow her to keep it and me to get the $$$


just another note to let ya'll in on whats been goin on with me. i've been hanging out with a friend i lost touch with after graduation. been going out with him and his woman and i've gotten closer with them. i do feel better about everything. there are moments when i have a little break down like when i am reminded of my ex-fiance (music, movies, etc...) my ex-fiance and i talked a good bit and we actually spent some time with eachother the other day. no doubt i still love her. but i've been acting cool about it. i do think we will get back together and i want to be. advice on what to do if we get together would be great. and another thing, we have been talkin about goin on a little date to just hang out and kinda start from there and see what happens. on our "first" date i'm plannin to play it cool and show her a good time, but what should i do if sex is brought into the picture? should i go with the flow or no. i'm not talkin about me puttin moves on her. i am talkin about her puttin moves on me....just let me know something

[imaginewithme]

I am confused.........you want advise on getting back together with your fiance that just broke up with you, but you want to get back together with a girl from school???

Sounds to me you've already given up on the fiance and moving on. If that's the case then that's meant to be. Take it slow if you want....

Good luck and have fun. Sorry I couldn't be more help, I'm not sure what it is that YOU want.

[packrat]

lol no no...i meant i had been hangin out with old friends and i have gotten closer to them....then i meant me and my fiance are proly gonna get back together.


i edited the post up there....does it make more sense now?

[imaginewithme]

Oopss....ok.....sorry *blushing*

SOUNDS GREAT THEN!!!!

Take it slow....just enjoy eachothers company, have fun!!!!

[BruceandNan]

Packrat, from someone who was in the Marine Corps for 12 years, you need to move on. Begin a new life with someone you can trust.

In my twelve years in, I was married 11 of them. I was in The 1st Gulf War, and out in the field for months at a time before and after the war, and the whole time I was gone from my wife I never once had to worry about her sleeping with someone else. I trusted her deeply and totally.

You my friend cannot trust the women you are with, otherwise you would not get jealous when she is not with you. I have a good idea the feelings you have about your fiance, because I feel the same about my wife, who I have been married to for 20 years this past January. I trust her and don't worry about her when she is not around me.

It is hard to give up on someone you love and feel the things you feel, but marriage is built on trust. No trust, no marriage. You will just become another divorce statisic.

I'm going to tell you like your drill instructor or drill Sergeant told you, "PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS AND GET WITH THE PROGRAM BOY!!!"

The military made or makes you jump thru hoops, why should your jump through hoops when you get home for your wife.

Good luck either way you decide. Its your choice with the advice you have asked for.

[packrat]

loulabelle where are you? :) you are the s*** when it comes to advice

[jonik]

If I may:

To go and have sex with this woman on your "first date" after all that has happened in the last 5 weeks would be a huge mistake, in my opinion. I realize you miss it. I realize you probably miss that feeling of closeness and security. But trust me: Any feelings of closeness, security or even love you may get from sex with her will be fleeting if you don't first deal with the issues at hand. Namely:

Respect -- does your ex respect you as a man, as potential husband? I mean does she admire you? does she listen to you and consider your point of view? Does she appreciate your ideas, your dreams, your goals?
This is the most important thing a woman can give a man. More important than sex by far. (I hope you all will understand me here.)
A man needs to feel respected by his woman. When repsect is not there, everything falls out of whack. I think the men on this board will understand me when I say this.

Trust -- Do you trust her unreservedly? Can you let her be her own person without being afraid she'll outgrow you or stop loving you? Cuz she'll know it when you don't trust her. She'll feel it if you are insecure about your relationship.

Love -- Are you willing to do what is best for her? Are you willing to put her needs above yours? Are you prepared to let her go if you come to the realization that that is what is best for her?

Just some things for you to think about (and maybe talk about) before you start back into a sexual relationship as if nothing has happened to you (and her).

Good luck....

[packrat]

as long as she is happy...

[maddy]

packrat, for a moment be selfish... what will make you happy? You can't devote your life to making her happy....especially if she isn't doing the same.

There are other women in the world, and if you can't find one of them - singledom is not a death sentence.

[packrat]

i am happy now and content....but i'd be happier if she was with me

[Loulabelle]

Hiya packrat....since you've asked for my advice in particular I'll try to add something here, although between them the others have it all sewn up.

She says she misses your relationship and commitment - but packrat, honey, she doesn't say she misses YOU. She's lonely (hardly surprising after being in a relationship where you did all the giving and she did all the taking) and she's not sure if she likes being on her own, but that's not the same as actively wanting to be with you.

It's great that you're rekindling old friendships...it feels like for once on this board someone actually listened to the advice we had to offer! Filling your life with activities and friends will make you a more interesting person, and easier for some other young lovely to fall in love with.

As for the ex, I'm afraid I have a hard and fast rule, never to go back to an ex. It's just asking for trouble in my opinion. I certainly wouldn't entertain the idea of having sex with her, even if she puts the moves on you and there are a number of reasons I feel this would be a big mistake for you:

1. As I said before, going back to an ex, particularly after such a short amount of time is usually the wrong thing to do.
2. She had all the control in this relationship, so you need to make sure, if you're going to ignore point 1, that second time around you set the pace not her.
3. She may just be using you for sex (yes, women do this too) and this will make you feel bad. I mean really really horrible. If she's going to use you like a dildo, you may as well just buy her one.

I usually try to be objective about these things, but if you want my honest opinion, packrat, I don't think this woman is any good for you. She seems to manipulate you, she calls all the shots and she's using the fact that you love her so much against you.

Think about it logically: you say you'd be happier with her in your life....but were you happier before? When she was cheating on you? When you were insecure and feeling jealous? When you were worrying that the relationship might end at any moment? There is no reason to suggest that things will be different second time around.

[packrat]

i appreciate all of the advice....i will keep you updated to what goes on....thanks again

[BruceandNan]

LuLu---- Amen sister, preach on

Packrat---- Be true to yourself before you give your heart away again. Think man, think, with the head on your shoulders not the one in your pants.

[packrat]

everyone thinks that lol but i am not just some horny dog....i really care about the girl and i love her. i am thinking though. i'm not going into this blindfolded trust me. the way it is looking is we are gonna go out on a date and it's gonna either make or break the situation. not to sound arrogant but i am a good decent guy. and when we go out and i finally got her face to face to where we can talk i'm gonna get to the bottom of all of this b/s. and then i will make my decision. but to let you know, i know of a girl who is interested in me and she gave me her number. right now i feel if it dont work with me and my ex i am not built up enough to get into any type of relationship. but either way i am gonna be friends with this other girl and if it doesn't work with my ex maybe in the future something may develop between me and the other girl. i dont wanna do a rebound thing cuz thats not being fair to the other girl thats why i haven't tried to make anything of it with her because i still love my ex. when i have made my decision and either makeit/break it i will start the process of emotional "healing" and then in a little while i might be ready for something else. i have been doin a lot of things lately and i do feel better. if me and my ex work something out i will not be a doormat this time around. if signs of the old start showing i will end it myself. the "golden triangle" so to speak is not on my mind as to making stupid decisions. i hope that makes sense :)

[SexKittten_18]

Not sure if my two cents count here, but why would you even want to get back with someone who treats you like shit? And why would you stay with someone who cheated on you? I'm afraid I don't understand. I know I for one would never get back together with someone who treated me horribly, and I won't. In all honesty, I wouldn't even remain friends with them. If they treated you that badly during a relationship, who's to say they wouldn't do the same in a friendship?

My advice is simple. Move on. You don't need her. If she cheated on you, get rid of her. If she treats you poorly, get rid of her. Don't learn things the hard way, it causes more damage than it does good.

Anyway, just my two cents, take it or leave it. It's your life and you'll end up doing what you want. =) Good luck with whatever you decide though.

[packrat]

i would love to actually chat with someone about this so if anyone is interested my yahoo messenger id is pfpackrat

[packrat]

hey hey pf, i am here to give ya an update on whats been goin on with me situation. we are not back together. we may end up but we may not. i'm still on the prowl though lol. i am goin out with my friends a lot and havin a blast. i like what i am doin and if i get back with her or anyone else for that matter i am still gonna keep my closeness with my family and friends. i am kinda talkin with one girl but right now i am not looking to get back into anything long term ya know so if she's cool with that then eventually we may be able to develop something ya know? but until then i am goin out havin a great time and just kickin it. loulabelle, my lady, how ya been?

[Loulabelle]

Hehehehehe....aw...thanks packrat honey! I'm fine thanks....and it sounds like you are too!

I'm really pleased that things seem to be going well. You seem to have a good sensible approach to this whole thing; not putting your life on hold, but not rushing into another relationship either. Sensible man.

Sometimes, even when something really shitty happens, it can be a blessing in disguise. I know it's sometimes hard to take a fatalistic attitude (see the thread I started in this section for proof of how crap I am at the 'what will be, will be' thing!) but sometimes it really is all you can do!

I hope things continue to go well for you....you deserve it.

xxx

[Cjack]

I don't know much about you so maybe I shouldn't be giving advice.
I'll just say it looks like your relationship is headed toward a Cuckold relationship so maybe you need to read up on it.

[Loulabelle]

Cjack - you're a little late....packrat's no longer in the relationship.