No-smoking areas harmful to smokers

[wanderingsoul]

Ok, I was recently in columbus ohio helping kaelynn move onto the OSU campus. Now OSU is a smoker's hell, it's not allowed ANYWHERE!!! Well not anywhere indoors anyway.

Now I know this is too partially make smoking so uncomfortable to get people to quit or never start. Trust me, anyone smoking a cigarette in the middle of a downpour on a cold columbus night is gonna be pretty frickin uncomfortable!!! :hair: :hair: :hair:

However being in a no smoking area forces smokers to chain smoke to make up for lack of opportunity to smoke whenever. The fucked up thing is that now I'm back home and I'm still chain smoking.

It's easy to filter out the harmful elements of second hand smoke. The smell is a helluva lot harder to get rid of but not the smoke! True, it's not fair to torture non smokers trying to enjoy a family meal who happen to be sitting next to the smoking section. Just as it's not fair to torture smokers who refuse to quit just because business owners aren't willing to fork over the money for the air purifier and non-smokers don't want to smell the odor.

whatcha tink?

[FallenAngel5]

I've always been on the other side of this, so I don't see it in quite the same way. I don't know if I'll get my ass kicked for this but.... I've always felt that people choose to smoke. This is as conscious a decision as my decision to not smoke. And my decision doesn't harm your health. However, yours harms mine, and thus I should not be subjected to the consequences of someone else's choice.

As for the air purifier... the second-hand smoke is still harmful, unless the purifier is attached to the end of your cigarrette.

Sorry.

[wanderingsoul]

slightly more powerful exhaust/circulation fans vented through a purifier would result in low enough carconigen levels in the air that it would not be harmful.

[Fangtasia]

Cheaper for venues to just ban it

[Kaelynn]

It sucks hun... But you should quit... :x: And stop chain smoking you dork! :x:

[lazaruslong]

slightly more powerful exhaust/circulation fans vented through a purifier would result in low enough carconigen levels in the air that it would not be harmful.


IF this is true, (and Im sure it isnt) would you be willing to pay the higher prices it would take for the business to install these extra filters>?

[maddy]

And related to ^^^ as a non-smoker, why should I pay higher prices to visit such an establishment so you can keep up your habit?

I agree with fallenangel, at least initially smokers made the decision to smoke - I understand the nasty impacts of addiction and how difficult quitting can be. But I've also run into too many people that have told me while they understand they are killing themselves one puff at a time, they won't likely quit until the dr tells them they must go on oxygen - I realize this isn't all smokers, but at least some feel this way.

[Pita]

I'm a non smoker now for three weeks today!! :line:

It's hard thats for sure. My hubby still smokes and I bitch now all the time about the smell and the smoke in the house. He tries to keep it away from me but gets lazy about it. I am on his butt now to quit because he just found out he might have blockage in his heart. I hope he will take charge of his health. I smoked for 23 years and quitting has been a challenge but very doable. You just have to have the right motivation.

I will say when I did smoke I got used to not doing it in places that banned it. You can go several hours without having to have one. That won't kill you at all. :)

[jseal]

TinglingTess,

Excellent! :jump:

[Lilith]

Tess congrats! Tell your man to take it outside or I won't tie him up and make him miserable.

[moose]

Well done Tess, I agree with all the others as a non smoker my breathing does not affect your health, but you smoking does affect mine

[Zelezniy]

Last time I quit was in 2000 and I was smoke free for 3 years, then I happen to meet smoker and I try to make her stop by smoking my self (wise move) Last time I quit it was cold turkey, same will happen this time. Woohoo! she leave in 2 weeks. It's just a matter of personal motivation and if you gonna keep pressuring smokers to quit they will rebel even more. That's not the way it works. Clinton had a right idea by raising tax and choking the industry, not going after consumer/victim but I guess you can conceder raising tax on smokes as hitting smokers where it hurts the most. I wish they'd make it $10 a pack!

[Fangtasia]

About the raising taxes on smokes *L*

Our government makes a shitload of money from smokes...if everyone stops smoking they are still gonna want their shitload of money....where do ya think they're gonna get it from?

Guaranteed they move the tax over onto milk bread etc!

[LixyChick]

Hiya Zelezniy (Wow! As a sucky typer...that nic was really hard to remember and type...what's it mean?)...and Welcum to Pixies hun! So glad to see you jumping in and joining a very "hard" topic! Cudos to you! Hope to see you round the boards!

As to the topic? I hate that I am addicted to smoking! However, I am...and I won't debate that! (<---lights up a smoke)

Whenever I go to an establishment that bans smoking I can curtail. It's ok for me for a few hours....but you don't want to be around me after several hours without a "fix". I'm very innovative and resourseful and WILL find a way to "not offend" but get my addiction under control (I'll find a place to puff).

For them to try and ban smoking COMPLETELY only makes us (smokers) more furious! We (smokers) have abided by every rule and "sin tax" sent down from the "holier than thou cause I don't smoke...but you've no idea the other sins I hide in my closet" establishment since they figured out that second hand smoke can be harmful (DUH!!!!! WTF didn't realize that? Raise your hands and go to the back of the class for a fuck'in spankin!). We've been shunned and pushed further and further away from the old time ads which told us "You've come a long way baby". I know more female smoker's than male now-a-days! Sad but true!

So...since we are all shunned and banned from most places today...and if we ALL quit smoking fore the pressure...where will they get those tax monies from? Huh? Huh?

Oh non-smoker's! Hold onto your change purse! They have to "sin tax" something to make up for lost revenue! Be careful what you wish for...it could come back and bite you in the bu...uh...pocketbook!!!!!!!!!!!!

[maddy]

or move it to gas tax :) as if that's not high enough already.

[LixyChick]

EXACTLY maddy! ^5!

And another thing...why is smoking in a establishment a "mandatory ban"? Why doesn't the owner of the establishment have the right to chose whether he/she bans it, in relative proportion to those who frequent it. If they have a higher number of non-smoker's...ban smoking! If they have a higher number of smoker's, post at the door that it is a smoking establishment with a non-smoking section!

Who died and made non-smoker's/quitter's a superior being???????????? Maybe...I say MAYBE...you might live a healthier life, but you are no better than me in the entire scheme of things! I'm not a stupid person and I know what the risks are...but you aren't a "god" and I don't see how your rules are THE rules????????? What if I told you that your disgust of me should be taxed and if you show it on your face when I am around I can ban you from my establishment!!!!!?????? How ya like me now?



^^^I can already see the comments on that statement!

*jumps off the pretty pink soap box and sends it to the painters to have a new sheen put on it*

[Lilith]

I wonder if the sin tax would be offset by not having to pay the medical bills of indigent smokers?

Non smokers are not superior, it is the law in many places to ban smoking in public facilities because it is a known public health risk. It is easier for smokers to go outside to smoke than non-smokers to step outside to breathe. I have no problem with smokers. I know the addiction well. It's the age old story of your rights end where mine begin.

[Lilith]

I found these Wikapedia links to have a lot of information

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_ban
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_smoking

[wanderingsoul]

Ok well the point that I'm trying to make is that cig smoke to non smokers is annoying and inconvient in many ways. BUT, doing everything in the world to make non-smokers happy is much more than annoying and inconvient, it's straight up killing us smokers.

I don't like anything about the act of smoking, not many smokers do. However I am addicted and depend on cigs since current laws don't allow me to light a joint whenever I get stressed out. I also know how unhealthy smoking is and try to limit it as much as possible. I have to at $25-30 a carton!

I know that there are plenty arguments against smoking but there's two sides to every argument. True it would cost money to eliminate the second hand smoke and true it's not fair to make non-smokers pay for that. One possible solution is to charge an extra fee to sit in the smoking section.

As far as eliminating the second hand smoke completely, I've been thinking of designing a personal size version of something like this just so I can smoke at my dads house. Design a holder for the lit end of a cig, have two small tubes, one to each side. One brings new air in to keep the cig burning, one takes the the smoke out, either through filtration or straight outside. I know I haven't figured out everything as far as how to dispose of ashes and butts so that the smell from them doesn't leech out.

The point I'm trying to make is that there's a much better solution to the smoking problem rather than just banning it damn near everywhere. Us smoker's are used to paying an arm and a leg both in money and sacrifices for the freedom to smoke. No smoking areas create chain smokers, chain smoking kills a helluva lot quicker than regular, making nonsmokers comfortable is no reason to kill us smokers.

[LixyChick]

I wonder if the sin tax would be offset by not having to pay the medical bills of indigent smokers?

Non smokers are not superior, it is the law in many places to ban smoking in public facilities because it is a known public health risk. It is easier for smokers to go outside to smoke than non-smokers to step outside to breathe.
But that's just it Lil...we got addicted and now we are shunned and taken advantage of by taxes that don't apply to anyone other than us.

Why can't an owner of a place say..."Hey! I'm catering to my smoking paying peeps. I didn't vote to have a law against it...did I?" Owners are finding that a "hidden agenda" of elected and non-elected lawmaker's is this ban. Someone coulda told entrepreneurs that this was part of a platform or that by electing so-and-so they would have a trickle down effect by those they appointed who will make this ban a law all over. Government has stuck it's nose in far too many places it has no right to!

The law should be...(IMHO)...if you want a non-smoking place without fearing a lawsuit of prejudice...you have to post that your establishment is a non-smoking one. If you want a smoking place...POST IT and let those who "CHOOSE" not to smoke go elsewhere! How is it easier for me to leave to smoke than it is for you to NOT choose to come in if there is smoking? To make an across the board rule in favor of one side isn't fair to me...never will be! Given a choice...if I saw a sign that said "Non-Smoking Establishment"...I could go in, eat and leave to smoke. Or I could choose not to eat there. Same goes for you!

Why make it like we are leppers? And then have the balls to tax us for what is found offensive????? Isn't that like taking "dirty money"? What hypocracy!!!!

As to the medical part of it...health problems come in many forms from many causes and to blame cigs as the sole reason for high health care is just not fair or acurate!

[maddy]

Let me start by saying I'm personally naive to the addiction ... tried it, didn't like it, it's never been a problem for me. I don't shun friends and co-workers who choose to smoke, I only ask that they not do it in my car or home. I'll go to the bar and sit next to them and wave my hand in their face if their cigarette is blowing right in mine. That being said - I know I'm putting myself at risk by breathing in the air, just as I'm at risk for eating those darn McD's fries.

Back to the original point at hand which claims that smoking bans are dangerous to smokers becuase it causes chain smoking. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding this point. No one is forcing you to smoke any more or less than you would if there weren't a smoking ban, just restricting where you can do so.

I also believe that quitting is an option - again this is my naive, never addicted opinion. I've seen people quit so I have to believe it's a possibility.

[WildIrish]

If my face offends you, I'll gladly step outside.

If my words offend you, I'll talk elsewhere.

I don't want to be the one that diminishes a dining experience for you and your loved ones. And I expect the same courtesy from those around me. Problem is...we can't have it both ways. It's impossible to eliminate smoke. It's cheaper and more effective to not allow it. If the technology enabled us to copatronize, I wouldn't have a problem with a dining facility that accomodated both.

[LixyChick]

I also believe that quitting is an option - again this is my naive, never addicted opinion. I've seen people quit so I have to believe it's a possibility.
I only pulled this one quote from your reply because I agree with everything else you said prior to it.

And...YES! I agree we have the option to quit...and I have on many occasions! If I NEVER smoked, it'd be easier to see your side of things. So, as a smoker, let me enlighten you to my plight.

I swear maddy...I understand your naivety. I am naive to the addiction of heroin. Never tried it, can't understand the attraction, would NEVER try it. Though, I know heroin users who have given up heroin and CAN'T give up cigs. They say it's the worst addiction they have ever known, above and far beyond smoking cigs! I thought...peshaw <sp?>...Heroin is pretty bad shit! But I see it with my own eyes..smoking cigs is the badder of the shit!

OK...that said... If I could get an hemi-lobotomy to make me FORGET that I ever smoked or (at one time) ever liked it...I'd be first in line! Use me as a guinea pig...I don't care...I HATE SMOKING that much! I'd go where no one has gone before if they thought I could stop and never want to start again!

Ask everyone that you know who has quit maddy...ask them to be honest and tell you if there aren't times when they want to smoke again...do they miss it from time to time...do they get the urge under pressure...and so on. I've known peeps who have quit 30+ years and STILL have the notion to start again!

I DO NOT WANT THAT URGE ANYMORE! I just don't like dwelling on past experiences unless they are good ones! That's why I quit quitting. It's all I can think about when I quit. I see cig smoke in my dreams. When I am awake, I see more people smoking than I ever knew smoked. It's almost like they are taunting me with it! I went to several hypnotists and that didn't work. I tried the patch and as soon as I was done my last step, I went back. I went into the woods for 7 straight days without a pack and as soon as I got out I lit up. It's all I think about!

As to being restricted...I do think I smoke more when I am aware that I'll be restricted when I get to my destination. At work...I have 2-10 minute breaks and a 15 minute lunch (chosen...to get out 15 minutes earlier). I smoke 2 cigs on my 10 min. breaks and 3 on my 15...so there is some truth to wanderingsoul's proclaimation!

I hear there will be a pill in the near future that'll not only help us quit but lose weight in the process (a big concern for quitter's). I hope it's all they are cracking it up to be...because I have no hope otherwise!

[LixyChick]

If my face offends you, I'll gladly step outside.

If my words offend you, I'll talk elsewhere.

I don't want to be the one that diminishes a dining experience for you and your loved ones. And I expect the same courtesy from those around me. Problem is...we can't have it both ways. It's impossible to eliminate smoke. It's cheaper and more effective to not allow it. If the technology enabled us to copatronize, I wouldn't have a problem with a dining facility that accomodated both.
You are a very sweet, sincere and all around nice person WI. No one has ever disputed that here, that I know of.

I am highly insulted that you insinuate that I "wish to diminish a dining experience" because I smoke. As far as I know, all smokers make a choice to dine in an all non-smoking establishment...by hook or by crook...and we abide by that rule, no questions asked! On the flip side...non-smokers make a conscience decision to dine/drink at a smoking establishment and have no right to complain when they are seated! In order to get to the "non-smoking" section...whoever (in his/her great wisdom) has put the non-smoking section to the rear of said establishment! When one walks into a place and sees/smells/nearly pukes from the smoking going on...you have a choice to leave or be seated!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't smoke to offend anyone but myself...which, BTW, it does offend me more times than not lately! I consider myself to be the most polite smoker on this planet. I KNOW IT IS YUCKY...I KNOW...I KNOW!!!!!!!

If an establishment has a no smoking rule...I don't light up...I find a place to light up...just not there! If I am smoking in a place that allows it...I am soooooooooooooooooooo considerate of those not smoking or those I know are non-smoker's!!!!!

I realize some of us can be offensive even with the rules layed out. To them I :hair: and appologize for all of us who are trying to make a place for us instead of feeling like a leper! There are ways we can all coexist ya know. Don't back us into corner's like rats and we won't jump at your throat!

[Scarecrow]

Car crashes kill more people than cigarettes, so do we ban cars and yes it can be the falt of the other driver and not yours. I quit smoking over three yrs ago and I still get the urge at times. WI why not a smokers only establishment, that way no non-smoker will have to put up with the smoke. But no that is discrimination. I just think the smoker is unjustly discriminated agains with laws that only give rights to non-smokes.


(damn now I really want a cigarette. Lixy I have that tight chest feeling)

[LixyChick]

Car crashes kill more people than cigarettes, so do we ban cars and yes it can be the falt of the other driver and not yours. I quit smoking over three yrs ago and I still get the urge at times. WI why not a smokers only establishment, that way no non-smoker will have to put up with the smoke. But no that is discrimination. I just think the smoker is unjustly discriminated agains with laws that only give rights to non-smokes.


(damn now I really want a cigarette. Lixy I have that tight chest feeling)
(((((Scarecrow)))))

I know baby...I know!


Here...hug this tight chest *points to own breasts* and suck on them instead!

K?



:x:

Stop touching my "butt" (pardon the pun!)

[Lilith]

There are ways we can all coexist ya know.

I think he mentions that same thing in his post.

Am I glad there are places I can go and not be subjected to second hand smoke? yes

Do I care if there are places you can go and light up inside? nope would not bother me at all

If the people who smoked, and there are quite large numbers still, organized, and set out to lobby, I'm sure you would make more of an impact. There are plenty of politicians who still have big tobacco money in their pockets. Write a letter, start a movement.

[maddy]

Lixy - the one quitter I know that has never had the urge (not asked the other now non-smokers I know) is my father. He had a major surgery in the early 80's. He was a pack-a-day guy until the surgery. Post-op he was wheeled on his gurnee/bed thingee from recovery to his private room. In transition we went past a smoking lounge and the smell that wafted out was enough to make him sick to his stomach on the spot. To this day he has not touched a cigarette and has said it was a huge unexpected benefit of the surgery. I'm thankful for the side effect as well. Can't explain it really as he wasn't even thinking about quitting at the time - likely complained that he wouldn't be able to smoke for "x" days while recovering from the surgery.

To this day, he will not frequent places that have a strong smell of cigarette smoke (think of your favorite bar that serves the most excellent burger ... that type of place). If he goes into an establishment and the smell is too strong he will leave, as it still has a lingering effect of making him sick to his stomach.

Who knows, mayhaps they did a hemi-lobotomy and just never told us ;)

[LixyChick]

I think he mentions that same thing in his post.

Am I glad there are places I can go and not be subjected to second hand smoke? yes

Do I care if there are places you can go and light up inside? nope would not bother me at all

If the people who smoked, and there are quite large numbers still, organized, and set out to lobby, I'm sure you would make more of an impact. There are plenty of politicians who still have big tobacco money in their pockets. Write a letter, start a movement.
Oops! Maybe I'm not explaining myself! I truely don't advocate smoking! I advocate the right for fairness...but I wish no one would ever start smoking from this moment forward! If that were the case...sooner or later there would be no more smokers!

To us who are left with putting up with the shame and embarrassment of ever having started...Have we really "come a long way baby"?

Yes...there are advocates of cigarette smoking. I am in no way saying I am one of them! What I am saying is...I smoke, I hate it, I can't quit and I gave up trying till I have a sure fire way. And could you give me the courtesy that I afforded you in making a choice when we are mingling in public? I'm not an idiot and I sin no more than you do! Cast a stone and expect one back!

[Lilith]

I think I made it clear in my post that I can however right now in my state it is not up to me, nor was it. That is where my suggestion to get organized comes from. If you don't want to get into bed with the Pro-smoking groups than perhaps a group for people who feel victimized by both tobacco and the restrictions placed on those still subjected to it's addicting effects. My point is that the anti-smoking lobbyists were able to effect change and you have the power to effect the same change. Start small, contact your state rep and tell him you feel you are being discriminated against.


Totallly off the subject or maybe not, is it discrimination to make people wear shoes, shirts in a restaurant???

[PantyFanatic]

“Secondhand smoke is as bad as smoking yourself.”

Show me, please.

Show me testing results……………. And tell me who did the tests,…..and who funded the test, ……..and the test protocol, …………… and let me ask questions.

I’m sure that will not be a problem for such courteous and considerate people as nonsmokers.

[Scarecrow]

(((((Scarecrow)))))

I know baby...I know!


Here...hug this tight chest *points to own breasts* and suck on them instead!

K?



:x:

Stop touching my "butt" (pardon the pun!)


:hug:
:shake:
:x:

[Lilith]

“Secondhand smoke is as bad as smoking yourself.”

Show me, please.

Show me testing results……………. And tell me who did the tests,…..and who funded the test, ……..and the test protocol, …………… and let me ask questions.

I’m sure that will not be a problem for such courteous and considerate people as nonsmokers.

I think if you look at the links I posted you may find some info on some of those studies.

[LixyChick]

I think I made it clear in my post that I can however right now in my state it is not up to me, nor was it. That is where my suggestion to get organized comes from. If you don't want to get into bed with the Pro-smoking groups than perhaps a group for people who feel victimized by both tobacco and the restrictions placed on those still subjected to it's addicting effects. My point is that the anti-smoking lobbyists were able to effect change and you have the power to effect the same change. Start small, contact your state rep and tell him you feel you are being discriminated against.

Totallly off the subject or maybe not, is it discrimination to make people wear shoes, shirts in a restaurant???
Did that a while back and started getting junk mail from every "group of victims" under the sun. I take full responsibility for that because I didn't weed out the links as well as I should have and some mail went directly to my "junk mail folder" and others to my inbox. I've since corrected that flow and will stick strictly to "snail mail" for further corrsepondence!

Be it known...I am NOT just all talk, no action! I've taken action from my little slice of the world and yet the action doesn't suffice. I am one...they are many more than me if no one but me ( I feel so alone) takes a stand on fairness! Laws have been set before I took a stand...and continue to expand since I took a stand. Obviously I have no footing because I am a lowly smoker! I stand on the side that is shunned and seems to me my voice will never be heard!

I know how a bill becomes a law...but how does a law get undone?????? How can I help tweak it? Energy fails me to fight city hall!

[Lilith]

Here is a site that has information that decries the second hand smoke stance.

http://www.davehitt.com/facts/

[Lilith]

I know how a bill becomes a law...but how does a law get undone?????? How can I help tweak it? Energy fails me to fight city hall!

You know it's not easy and in my state the Governor tried to repeal one and that failed too! I wish it were simple. That I know of there was never a referendum for me to vote on when they passed the no smoking in public places law here. But I fall into the cracks being a citizen of a county but not the city.

[Booger]

I wonder if the sin tax would be offset by not having to pay the medical bills of indigent smokers?

If it were the reason for the sin tax. Then they should start a sin tax on things like potato chips, soda pop, twinkies, or any other food that has no real nutrition value with lots of empty calories.

[Cheyanne]

I would have to agree with the theory of when I couldn't smoke vs. when I could. When I could, I would make up for when I couldn't LOL - did that make sense? I don't know if that was killing me more than if I could smoke more conveniently as I think that just having the one has the potential to kill me.

That being said, when I smoked, I was a polite smoker. Even in my own home - if someone was visiting me that didn't smoke, I would ask if they minded if I did or I would leave the room for a bit (or even just not smoke). I have had people say that they did mind, and I didn't light up.

I am now in the process of quitting. It is not easy. It is by far the hardest thing I have ever had to do and it pisses me off that I am weak and give in to the addiction. I was at 10 days and I gave in this weekend (damn - shit - damn). But, I will start over because I AM GOING to quit!!!!!! So, if hoofing it a mile or more to a place where I can smoke will make me not smoke then I am for it!!!!!!!!!!

Besides that - it is getting in the way of my fucking!!!!!!!!!!

[Fangtasia]

Ask everyone that you know who has quit maddy...ask them to be honest and tell you if there aren't times when they want to smoke again...do they miss it from time to time...do they get the urge under pressure...and so on. I've known peeps who have quit 30+ years and STILL have the notion to start again!
My honest answer is:

No i do not get the urge to have a smoke....after 4 weeks of being a non smoker the urges went and have not returned

I do not miss it
I do not have the urge under pressure

I have now been a non smoker for 7-8 yrs

[Loulabelle]

a purifier would result in low enough carconigen levels in the air that it would not be harmful.

There is a massive anti-smoking campaign going on in Britain at the moment which highlights the dangers of passive smoking.

It's not just cancer that passive smokers need to worry about: apparently passive smoking reduces the oxygen levels of blood around the heart which lead to heart disease (the biggest killer in the UK at present) so it's not just a case of carcinogen levels in the air.

My general stance on smoking is that it's a bizarre and quite revolting habit and I've noticed that smokers are generally less environmentally and socially conscious people. For example, I'm sure the majority of people here would not dream of dropping a coke can in the street, but how many smokers will happily drop a cigarette stubb on the pavement? It seems to be completely acceptible behaviour. I've even seen my house guests and neighbours drop cigarette butts on my door step or into my flower beds in full view of me, as though it doesn't count as littering!!!!! And then they wonder why I think smokers are disgusting!

Anti-social behaviour like that does nothing to help improve my view of smokers. Smokers want respect and consideration? Then it's about time they tried to show some REAL consideration to others! Smoking outside and then tossing your butt into the street is not my definition of consideration.

[Loulabelle]

Ok well the point that I'm trying to make is that cig smoke to non smokers is annoying and inconvient in many ways. BUT, doing everything in the world to make non-smokers happy is much more than annoying and inconvient, it's straight up killing us smokers.


Hmm....how about taking a little responsibility for your actions.....what you said is a typical addict's response, and no more valid than saying:

'It's my wife's nagging that drives me to the bottle of whisky'


I went to a diet class last year (because I'm a food addict) and had to eat low fat food the whole time I was there and when I stopped going to the class because the teacher quit to have a baby, I went on a binge and put on loads of weight again. The weight I've gained increases my risk of heart disease, dvt, cancer, asthma, digestive problems, and if I continue at this weight, I have undoubtedly shortened my life. So does that mean the diet class is responisble for my early demise? Of course it doesn't! Me filling my face with the wrong foods and not exercising is responsible, and I'd be a pathetic waste of space if I said otherwise.

[Mercury_Maniac]

It's easy to filter out the harmful elements of second hand smoke.




you mean like not breathing?

[moose]

ok i will open up this topic in 2 areas and this is my opinion and not meant to affend anyone, firstly i am an ex smoker who smoked for more than 25 years and belive that they have gone a little over the top with banning smoking in some areas like they were talking about banning people from smoking in cars here when there was kids in the car (another dumb arse do gooders bright idead) i personely cant not stand the smell of the dam things and i pisses me off when you have a no smoking area like a resterant and you have all the smokers standing in the door way and i have to walk through that to get in or out when they could at least walk 20 30 feet away. (i not saying all smokers are like that) the second thing is you may pay more tax but you suffer more medical problems from smoking so it would br fair to say you get a good part of that tax back

[WildIrish]

I've even seen my house guests and neighbours drop cigarette butts on my door step or into my flower beds in full view of me, as though it doesn't count as littering!!!!! And then they wonder why I think smokers are disgusting!

Anti-social behaviour like that does nothing to help improve my view of smokers. Smokers want respect and consideration? Then it's about time they tried to show some REAL consideration to others! Smoking outside and then tossing your butt into the street is not my definition of consideration.


Thank you Loulabelle, for touching upon that point the way you did. People driving down the road flicking their butts out the window piss me off royally!

Now before Lixy drives up here to beat me to death with a liberal dose of righteous indignation...remember this:

That's an example of an inconsiderate asshole smoker. Being a smoker is not what makes them an inconsiderate asshole. The cigarette butt is but a tool in their hands. That's an asshole doing something inconsiderate. To apply that behaviour to all smokers is akin to saying that all soda drinkers toss their cans out the car window. Aqua drinks Mountain Dew, right? He's the last person in the world I'd expect to see whipping empties out the window of his Scooby Doo. There are inconsiderate people doing disrespectful and discourteous things to others all day every day...smoking and non-smoking. What I was getting at (obviously not well, or you would've gotten my point) was that I'm respectful of those around me, and I expect that same courtesy. Be it from a smoker who's blowing smoke at my table, frat boys bragging about their sexual conquests within earshot of my children, stupid parents who do nothing while their bratty kids running amok, or the CEO yelling into his cell phone.

Like I said in my original post...if there was a way we could all coexist, I'm there. If I walk into a restaurant that has a smoking area, I'll request they seat us away from it. If I have to walk past a smoking table, I don't wrinkle my nose in disgust from the smell. I'm a grown man, for crying out loud! I follow the waiter/tress to my table and sit down & eat. If I'm right next to a smoking area, I ask to be moved. It's my right. Notice how I'm saying "I ask to be moved." not "I ask they be moved.". That's not my right.

I'm sorry you took offense to my statements, Lixy. I indicated it was a matter of being courteous. If you are...then I'm not talking to you.

[PantyFanatic]

…..belive that they have gone a little over the top with banning smoking in some areas like they were talking about banning people from smoking in cars here when there was kids in the car (another dumb arse do gooders bright idead) …. the second thing is you may pay more tax but you suffer more medical problems from smoking so it would br fair to say you get a good part of that tax back

I believe you are correct ‘MATE’, that the pendulum swings a bit far to the right sometime. ;) As for looking only at the $$ involved with treating medial issues, you could consider that smokers will be canceled out of the equation much earlier and may well consume less costs in the declining years than the nonproductive arses of the nonsmokers.

….Now before Lixy drives up here to beat me to death with a liberal dose of righteous indignation...remember this:……
…. If I have to walk past a smoking table, I don't wrinkle my nose in disgust from the smell. I'm a grown man, for crying out loud! I follow the waiter/tress to my table and sit down & eat. If I'm right next to a smoking area, I ask to be moved. It's my right. Notice how I'm saying "I ask to be moved." not "I ask they be moved.". That's not my right…..
Your attitude is something that would be welcome by most smokers, WildIrish, and is one that would perhaps allow us to deal with a matter we are much less pleased about ourselves.
I’m pretty sure that the “liberal doses of righteous indignation” are seen to come TO the smoker rather than FROM them. This thread (and others on this topic) attest to the eagerness for the supercilious. I know that I have an innate reaction to arrogant, condescending, pompous, patronizing assholes that I’m working on dealing with in a better manner, but I do think the natural progression is for a target to first become defensive and then aggressive when threatened. It’s a natural human trait to elevate ourselves by promoting the transgressions of others, but I can tell you that the perception of persecution triggers a defensive reaction rather than one of cooperation.

[lazaruslong]

Besides that - it is getting in the way of my fucking!!!!!!!!!!


/me likes fucking

[WildIrish]

Your attitude is something that would be welcome by most smokers, WildIrish, and is one that would perhaps allow us to deal with a matter we are much less pleased about ourselves.

Those that know me understand that I'm all about sharing this world with others, and that the only way that's going to work is if we all respect each other.

We can agree on a global topic like homelessness and disagree on what to do about it while still being respectul of each other, can't we? Well, actually in the real world, no...we can't, and it saddens me. If we could, we'd have the problem damn near solved. :(

[Fangtasia]

...... banning smoking in some areas like they were talking about banning people from smoking in cars here when there was kids in the car (another dumb arse do gooders bright idead)
As it should be too!

...i never smoked in the car when my kids were in it..........they had to be in the car...i put em there but i have no right put them in harms way or subject them to my filthy habit

I stinks....it makes me car sick and i was a smoker....i dread to think what it smells and feels like to a person thats never smoked...

Second hand smoke IS dangerous

[maddy]

I hate to dwell on the original point of the thread, but it was ... smoking bans are harmful to the health of smokers - the inability to smoke freely wherever and whenever makes smokers into chain smokers.

Last time I tried to get back to this point, Lixy added her thoughts about how she smokes during her three breaks in her workday - a cigarette in 5 minutes (2 during 10 minute breaks, and 3 during the 15 minute). All that adds up to 7 during her workday which seems to be quite long as of late. wanderingsoul made the point that since he was subjected to the ban at OSU, now that he is out of the environment he continues to chain smoke. If this were in fact the case, one could surmize (maybe not accurately) that during Lixy's non-working hours she's smoking 12 cigarettes an hour. If that is in fact the case, we need to desperately re-consider these bans and the impact they are having on the health of smokers.

Again, in my naive little world, I believe this isn't the case for all smokers. Can we all agree (maybe?) that the smoking bans that are in place are causing an improved environment for ALL people? I feel like I'm stretching to get agreement in this thread, but I thought I'd give it a try.

[WildIrish]

/me peeks under your blouse while you stretch. :D

[Loulabelle]

WildIrish, I thought I was the only one who gets bugged by that!!!!!! So glad to find I'm not alone. :D

Moose, I have to agree with Alasse, I don't see that a parent has the right to put their child's health in danger. As a child I developed asthma when my step father (a smoker) moved into our house. It magically went away again after leaving University (where I lived with lots of smokers) and moving into my own house.

Maddy, amen sister, you've definitely got agreement from me. You're absolutely right.

[LixyChick]

My general stance on smoking is that it's a bizarre and quite revolting habit and I've noticed that smokers are generally less environmentally and socially conscious people. For example, I'm sure the majority of people here would not dream of dropping a coke can in the street, but how many smokers will happily drop a cigarette stubb on the pavement? It seems to be completely acceptible behaviour. I've even seen my house guests and neighbours drop cigarette butts on my door step or into my flower beds in full view of me, as though it doesn't count as littering!!!!! And then they wonder why I think smokers are disgusting!

Anti-social behaviour like that does nothing to help improve my view of smokers. Smokers want respect and consideration? Then it's about time they tried to show some REAL consideration to others! Smoking outside and then tossing your butt into the street is not my definition of consideration.
Geezzzzzz......I've NEVER been that slovenly! First off...I NEVER discard anything that isn't biodegradable! Sure, I'll toss an apple core into the woods as I drive down the street or something of that nature. But I never toss anything that I know won't biodegrade!

I don't know who your friends are but ewwwwwwwww! I've never met anyone like those you say would put a cig butt in your flower bed! I've had humongous parties here and on clean-up had to pick up maybe 5 cig. butts...total! I'm betting those were the friends that ended up passing out on the lawn...lol! But then, my friends know me and know that I am environmentally friendly...and seek out the recycling bins and ashtrays when they visit...cause I provide them for them!!!!

I will never advocate disposing of a cigarette butt! Matter of fact, where I work there is a private club across the street and they use our parking lot after hours for their overflow parking. Every morning, like clockwork, I go around picking up the butts on the ground from the patronage the night before. If I left them there, no one else would ever pick them up but just complain when our smoking privledges are taken away. I know it's from the patrons of the club and not our employees because "I AM THE KEEPER OF THE BUTT CAN"! If I spy an inflection in keeping the grounds where we break clean...I'll call them on it. Once, a new guy at the job came back from break after I had gone in. Someone came and told me he put a lit butt in the butt can. LMAO at the tattletale, I knew it would have to be my responsibility to set the newbie straight. I went to his work area, introduced myself, shook his hand and asked him to please follow me. I explained as we walked that if he put lit butts in the butt can provided that it would catch fire and our smoking privledges would be under scrutiny. We walked to the sink, got a pitcher of water, and started to the door. I told him it was either this or he'd have to piss in the tiny hole to which he put his butt in. He laughed, appologized and put the lit cig. out!

If I am arriving at a store, of which I can still smoke outside as I near the establishment as far as I know, I check to see if they have a place to put out cigs. Most do but some don't and I'll never understand that! We don't smoke in the store...duh! Don't they think that of everyone who comes to their store there just might be a few smokers who will outen (<---Pa. Dutch slang) their butts in front of the store? Provide a place to dispose of the butts for crying out loud!

If smoking is banned inside establishments...or even in homes and private clubs, etc....but we still have the right to smoke outside...how's about giving us a place to outen our butts?

Or...would you all just prefer that we move to our own island?


Geezzzzzzz...I hate being stereotyped!

[maddy]

Or...would you all just prefer that we move to our own island?



I'm not suggesting the island as a solution, but it could have it's advantages, don't you think? Enough so that I might consider pretending to smoke :)

[LixyChick]

I'm sorry you took offense to my statements, Lixy. I indicated it was a matter of being courteous. If you are...then I'm not talking to you.
:x: In my saner moments...when I don't feel like I have to be on the defensive for all I know who are smokers and like me...I know that! I do know that about you babe!

To all reading all my posts here...this is a REALLY REALLY touchy subject that I hate even having to try and defend! I sat here yesterday trying to put myself in the quitter/non-smoker's shoes. I tried to think from your side of the fence. I get it...I swear I do...SMOKING IS DISGUSTING AND YOU ALL HATE IT! Ever try to put yourself in my shoes? Ever wonder why such a strong person like Lixy (I'm hoping you all might think I have some inner strength) won't quit?

I won't go into that banter again...I'll just reiterate that we (smoker's) have been dumped on from every angle and it's really starting to piss us off. If you push someone long enough to bend to your will and they are resistant but give till the fairness runs out...are we sure there won't be some kind of revolt?

The cigarette comapanies have admitted to making us all the more addicted with additives. Can't some of you brainiacks (word?...and someone check that spelling before I admit into the Lixtionary...lol!) figure out a way to undo what the cig companies have done to us???? My friends daughter is a biochemist and I've begged her for a cure! She giggles at me because she understands the addiction even though she doesn't smoke. She knows what the cigarette comapanies have done. She chides me and says shes working on it. Gotta love her! Who knows...she is smarter than smart itself and she might be serious...but who can tell fore when she talks I just look at her like a deer in the headlights trying to follow her conversations on chemicals and their interaction with the body when introduced by outside blah, blah, blah and such...lmfao!

Yes Loulabelle...I blame the cigarette companies! If the warning labels back when I started smoking had said, "We want you to smoke and you'll love it for a while but soon you'll be addicted and it'll be the worst addiction you'll ever have in your life...this is our promise because we are fucking with the additives to make sure we will keep that promise to you"...I'd have never started! That's why I never tried heroin. I saw the warnings and the awful addiction in my brother and I never dabbled, even once, cause I KNEW I would get addicted to it and end up like him. Cigarettes grab you slower...and nearly never let you go! Why would I chose this if I knew? It's not a disgusting habit. Yes, it's disgusting...but it's an addiction...NOT A HABIT! Biting my nails was a habit!

Oh Gawd...this is exhausting and I need a cig!

Lixy OUT!

[LixyChick]

I'm not suggesting the island as a solution, but it could have it's advantages, don't you think? Enough so that I might consider pretending to smoke :)
*giggle*

I'm askeered of hurricanes!

Maddy, I'm sorry for making you think that I don't understand your point[s]. I promise I do take heed to all words spoken on this subject.

I really hate having to try and defend smokers. I just feel that there will always be this controversy and I am on the shittiest end of this particular stick and I can't go down without trying to make others see it from my side too!

Make sense?

[maddy]

Oh, I see your point... I learned long ago that I won't force a smoker to give up their cigarettes so long as they don't make me give up carbs and chocolate. I just ask that people not do it in my immediate presence and are considerate in public - which you clearly have stated you are. I have plenty of friends that choose to smoke. I choose them as my friends. I don't mind them smoking in my presence and of course would prefer they didn't have the habit/addiction but that's their's to own, not mine.

I would never claim to have been on the forefront of the bans that are in place, but I don't complain about them being in place either.

[Aqua]

Geezzzzzz......I've NEVER been that slovenly! First off...I NEVER discard anything that isn't biodegradable! Sure, I'll toss an apple core into the woods as I drive down the street or something of that nature. But I never toss anything that I know won't biodegrade!

I don't know who your friends are but ewwwwwwwww! I've never met anyone like those you say would put a cig butt in your flower bed! I've had humongous parties here and on clean-up had to pick up maybe 5 cig. butts...total! I'm betting those were the friends that ended up passing out on the lawn...lol! But then, my friends know me and know that I am environmentally friendly...and seek out the recycling bins and ashtrays when they visit...cause I provide them for them!!!!

I will never advocate disposing of a cigarette butt! Matter of fact, where I work there is a private club across the street and they use our parking lot after hours for their overflow parking. Every morning, like clockwork, I go around picking up the butts on the ground from the patronage the night before. If I left them there, no one else would ever pick them up but just complain when our smoking privledges are taken away. I know it's from the patrons of the club and not our employees because "I AM THE KEEPER OF THE BUTT CAN"! If I spy an inflection in keeping the grounds where we break clean...I'll call them on it. Once, a new guy at the job came back from break after I had gone in. Someone came and told me he put a lit butt in the butt can. LMAO at the tattletale, I knew it would have to be my responsibility to set the newbie straight. I went to his work area, introduced myself, shook his hand and asked him to please follow me. I explained as we walked that if he put lit butts in the butt can provided that it would catch fire and our smoking privledges would be under scrutiny. We walked to the sink, got a pitcher of water, and started to the door. I told him it was either this or he'd have to piss in the tiny hole to which he put his butt in. He laughed, appologized and put the lit cig. out!

If I am arriving at a store, of which I can still smoke outside as I near the establishment as far as I know, I check to see if they have a place to put out cigs. Most do but some don't and I'll never understand that! We don't smoke in the store...duh! Don't they think that of everyone who comes to their store there just might be a few smokers who will outen (<---Pa. Dutch slang) their butts in front of the store? Provide a place to dispose of the butts for crying out loud!

If smoking is banned inside establishments...or even in homes and private clubs, etc....but we still have the right to smoke outside...how's about giving us a place to outen our butts?

Or...would you all just prefer that we move to our own island?

Geezzzzzzz...I hate being stereotyped!
Here's the above post as seen through 'Aqua Vision'...

Geezzzzzz......I've NEVER been that slovenly! First off...I NEVER discard anything that isn't biodegradable! Sure, I'll toss an apple core into the woods as I drive down the street or something of that nature. But I never toss anything that I know won't biodegrade!

I don't know who your friends are but ewwwwwwwww! I've never met anyone like those you say would put a cig butt in your flower bed! I've had humongous parties here and on clean-up had to pick up maybe 5 cig. butts...total! I'm betting those were the friends that ended up passing out on the lawn...lol! But then, my friends know me and know that I am environmentally friendly...and seek out the recycling bins and ashtrays when they visit...cause I provide them for them!!!!

I will never advocate disposing of a cigarette butt! Matter of fact, where I work there is a private club across the street and they use our parking lot after hours for their overflow parking. Every morning, like clockwork, I go around picking up the butts on the ground from the patronage the night before. If I left them there, no one else would ever pick them up but just complain when our smoking privledges are taken away. I know it's from the patrons of the club and not our employees because "I AM THE KEEPER OF THE BUTT CAN"! If I spy an inflection in keeping the grounds where we break clean...I'll call them on it. Once, a new guy at the job came back from break after I had gone in. Someone came and told me he put a lit butt in the butt can. LMAO at the tattletale, I knew it would have to be my responsibility to set the newbie straight. I went to his work area, introduced myself, shook his hand and asked him to please follow me. I explained as we walked that if he put lit butts in the butt can provided that it would catch fire and our smoking privledges would be under scrutiny. We walked to the sink, got a pitcher of water, and started to the door. I told him it was either this or he'd have to piss in the tiny hole to which he put his butt in. He laughed, appologized and put the lit cig. out!

If I am arriving at a store, of which I can still smoke outside as I near the establishment as far as I know, I check to see if they have a place to put out cigs. Most do but some don't and I'll never understand that! We don't smoke in the store...duh! Don't they think that of everyone who comes to their store there just might be a few smokers who will outen (<---Pa. Dutch slang) their butts in front of the store? Provide a place to dispose of the butts for crying out loud!

If smoking is banned inside establishments...or even in homes and private clubs, etc....but we still have the right to smoke outside...how's about giving us a place to outen our butts?

Or...would you all just prefer that we move to our own island?


Geezzzzzzz...I hate being stereotyped!

[Fangtasia]

The other day my son and i were eating our lunch along with quite a few others in a non smoking area outside the doors of the shopping centre...a smoker came and stood right under the sign and smoked his cigarette...his smoke blowing over all trying to eat...then when he finished he flicked his damn butt onto the ground and walked off.....about 10 meters away was a smoking section complete with ashtrays
(It is not permitted to smoke within 10 meters of the centres main doors...because without a word of a lie...it was like walking through a damn smoke haze to get into the place...so the Centre was trying to keep ALL happy)

By the amount of butts i see walking into the center...not many use the ashtrays provided...nor care much about the non smoking areas

[lazaruslong]

Just do away with the damned things and everything will be so much better.

[wanderingsoul]

well once again, I am apart from the ordinary. I am the most earth friendly person I've ever met and I happen to be a smoker as well. I was more disgusted than any other time in my life when I visited OSU campus.

Not only do they have the balls to outlaw smoking everywhere but there's only an ashtray like every 3 blocks!!! Not seriously but all of the smokers I talked to were as disgusted as I am by the lack of cigarette butt recepticles. It's not a choice there, what are we supposed to do stick them in our pockets and throw them away when you get home making your door smell like cigarettes anyway!?!?!

Us smokers have been giving and paying out the ass, all I'm asking is for nonsmokers to be willing to give a little as well.

[Cheyanne]

That makes me wonder Laz... would it be easier to quit if I knew that there were no more cigs to be had? Probably...

[Fangtasia]

It's not a choice there, what are we supposed to do stick them in our pockets and throw them away when you get home making your door smell like cigarettes anyway!?!?!
They should have more so that you can make their door smell like cigarettes then??

[Loulabelle]

Lixy, I'm glad to hear that you feel that way about cig butts, although I'd say you are the exception rather than the rule. Perhaps the views on cig butts are generally different in your neck of the woods, but in my 'nation of slobs' it seems I'm the only one who actually frowns on it! My next door neighbours are a prime example....their house is always immaculate (much cleaner and tidier than mine) but we share a drain (although it's on my property) and it's always full of cig butts.

I'd like it to be known, just for the record, that I own several ash trays, and that, in fact, when people who are smokers come to my house (which is fairly rare as a lot of my friends are non-smokers these days) I am quite happy for them to smoke inside - mainly because it disrupts the evening if my guest has to keep running to my front door to smoke every few minutes, and there's also a good chance they'd end up letting my kittens escape into the night (they aren't allowed out after dark).

A number of my friends have recently taken up smoking again after years of being non-smokers. I worry for their health and Fussy and I have both noticed that their smoking has a detrimental effect on our social group (there's always a little clique of them outside at a party not socialising with the rest of us, so I only get to spend time with them if I'm willing to freeze my butt off on the door step) but I don't look down on them, or think less of them than I used to. Hell, I daredn't even tell them not to throw cig butts in my flower bed for fear of them feeling unwelcome in my home.

As WildIrish says, it's a case of being polite and being a polite non-smoker is just as important as being a polite smoker.

[Cheyanne]

We would do what is called "field stripping" the cigs and put the butts in our pockets/purse/baggie to throw away later... no ashes, no tobacco etc in pockets, just the butts..