What's it gonna take?

[wanderingsoul]

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050823052309990001

This is a story about a gas station owner who was killed over a $52 gas tab. At a time when $3 per gallon is soon becoming a reality, one has to ask theirself what is causing this. The answer is fairly obvious, we're at war with the largest oil producing nation on earth.

Now I don't really have a political opinion on all this. However, america as a nation of indiviuals that are hard stressed as it is will NOT continue to pay these prices. This nation simply does not realize how dependant we are on gas. It also doesn't realise how dependant it is on computers but that's another story. The point is that one civialian is dead and I'm sure there will be others to follow I'm sad to say. So what is it gonna take to lower these gas prices and to get us out of a country we should've never gone to the first place.

I don't really care what happens, nuke the fuckers, leave them alone, or something in between, I really don't care. My feelings are that the mistake of a president we now have in office attacked an entire country because of the actions of a group of people who took actions that they thought were right because of a rogue element of an otherwise fairly peaceful religion. What I'm saying is that what those terrorist bastards did, they did because they thought it was what their god wanted. Any idiot who believes any god wants you to hijack a bunch of comercial airliners and kamakasi themselves into a bunch of buildings is without a doubt, an idiot. The religion that thy claim to be following is just a scape goat for them and anyone who's went through a high school history lesson on religion would know that. So what gives mr. dumbasshole the right to go and wage war on an entire country! I mean for christ sake!

That's my own 2 cents, how about yours.

[Fangtasia]

I live in a country that has its own oil....but we still pay big money for fuel

I back the President and my own PM in the decision to go to war

[Zephreck]

First of all if anyone believes that gas stations are only making one cent of profit from every gallon then they are very gullible. I can assure you it is much more or there wouldn't be a convienence store on every corner. Because the bulk of their sales is in fact gas.

As to the price of fuel the war certainly isn't helping but it isn't just that factor alone that has increased fuel rates. It began over a year ago when several of the refineries in South america / Mexico shut down production and / or reduced production refining wise. Most of the oil refineries cause pollution headaches and the good ol U.S way in the past is instead of doing it ourselves lets have another company do it for cheaper because wages there are much cheaper than what we (the U.S. can do it for). You are seeing a changing dynamic period in U.S economy. For years we have imported in general far more than we have exported. Even supposed "U.S" company of cars have been outsourcing more and more over the years and that is just one industry that has shipped things overseas etc to have done because in the past that was the most profitable way to do so. Because of this we are now finding ourselves not being able to support our own habits. We don't have enough refineries to process the crude oil, no one will give us a for sure accurate account of exactly how much true oil reserves we do have, so the market is unstable. They have cut down on offshore drilling and not spent the money to tap those resources because instead it was cheaper and easier to simply import it in.

We have been lucky all of these years to have the strongest currency in the world. Almost every country wants U.S backed currency (a.k.a the dollar) because it is more stable than other currencies and thus getting imports for a "cheaper" rate has really always been there for us. I think we may be seeing the first of many things that may be indicators that if we as a country want to continue to prosper that we may have to change how we do business. Just my two cents.

As to the why , how and "purpose" of the war we are in now.. I really rather not talk about that. I will only say that I am thankful for the men and women that are over there. They are being loyal to their country. It isn't their choice to be there specifically. They chose to serve their country and as such I respect them regardless of whether I find the "cause" they are fighting for a "good" one or not.

/bow

Zeph

[wanderingsoul]

I strongly agree and support our troops. They are simply following orders and have no choice about what those orders entail.

I also realize that the war is not the primary cause of the increase of gas prices. I'm just saying if the world could just learn to get along and compile their resources, the world would just be a much better place. I know this isn't a perfect world and that will probably never happen but I'm just saying that it sucks that we're just at war with each other.

If I offended anyone then I am sorry, I was simply venting. Also, I wasn't expecting everyone to agree with my opinion. For some reason a lot of people seem to like the goof ball. If you are one of those people then please feel free to explain how your opinion differs from my own. The last thing I'm trying to do is start a big argument but I can't even remember the last political based thread on here. I know everyone must have their own opinion. Hopefully a few more of you will be willing to express your opinion.

[PantyFanatic]

You may not get as many responses posted as you will have spurred thoughts within most of us, WanderingSoul. And with understand and good cause, as politics is the one thing that has truly hurt our village.:( I guess the nature of politics is the one place that we have a hard time accepting the differences of each other because it touches, in some way, ALL our basic personal philosophies. No two of us are exactly in complete tune with any other person and NOTHING is used so much to manipulate and control us. That is the nature and necessity of politics. And that is the yang of civilization.:mad:

So!:D ………………. I accept all your views as being the facts as you see them ……… except for one.
…Now I don't really have a political opinion on all this….
Other than that one crock of shit, (you DO state a lot of political opinions!) I agree with quit a few of your points. Trying to keep it to ONE topic, the energy issue, I’ll share an email I just sent into a radio interview panel a couple days ago. The guest speaker of ‘experts’ from the industry and government were sighting MANY complex facts (as they see them:rolleyes2 ). There are a kigilian facts that are involved in this alone, but this is my personal summery of what information I’ve garnered.

My seemingly cynical prospective has come from my personal observation, from my knowledge of history, my personal experiences in life and time. I view ‘greed’ as the human quality at the top of the pyramid motivating everything from basic survival, to religion, to knowledge, to the evolution of the specie, to the organization enabling the development (politics) and employed by those able to do so.

From a less ideological prospective of philosophy, to the personal immediate, I agree that we have to respect and support the individuals stepping forward to give something positive to the greater mass by doing the bidding of the manipulators.



(Lixy! I’m not doing this alone for you anymore! :box:





Yes I will. :D ) :grin:

[lonelyarmywife]

I have no comment. Seriously.

OK, wait yes I do.

As much as it really really REALLLLYY pains me to say this, i'm not sure gas prices are totally dependant on the bumblefuck of a war that is happening. I'm sure that contributes to it, but I actually think it has more to do with our bumblefuck of a declining economy than anything else. I have to feel confident that they will go back down, otherwise I will go nuts.

As a side note, the last time I talked to my husband, i was like "boy what are ya'll doing over there? How's aboot doing something worthwhile and getting these gas prices down?"

His response "Yeah, no shit. What is it, like 1.50 a gallon now or somthing?"

:bang:

[WildIrish]

While the average price for a gallon of gas in America is $2.30, the price per gallon in Cuba is $3.03. In Bulgaria it's $3.55. In Japan it's $4.61. In Croatia it's $4.80. In France it's $5.43. In Sweden it's $5.74. And in the Netherlands it's $6.21 per gallon.

However, you can still buy a gallon of gas in Venezuela for 12 cents a gallon. Maybe that's why Robertson's all up in arms! He must drive a big SUV. :grin:

[PantyFanatic]

What % of the pump price is gasoline and what % is TAX? In the USA, it can have as many as seven hands in your pocket for every gallon you buy. Besides the Fed and the State tax many counties and cities get their paws wet. There are “spillage” and “sir” and any other camouflage name they can think up taxes. The more socialistic the country, the higher the % of your $ goes to somebody that has NOTHING to do with producing or providing gasoline. It’s another gold mine for the parasites because they know they have you by the short & curlies on a down hill pull. I doubt it would cost $2.00 / gal ANYWHERE, even today if you only paid for petro.

http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp

[lonelyarmywife]

While the average price for a gallon of gas in America is $2.30, the price per gallon in Cuba is $3.03. In Bulgaria it's $3.55. In Japan it's $4.61. In Croatia it's $4.80. In France it's $5.43. In Sweden it's $5.74. And in the Netherlands it's $6.21 per gallon.

However, you can still buy a gallon of gas in Venezuela for 12 cents a gallon. Maybe that's why Robertson's all up in arms! He must drive a big SUV. :grin:

yes, but see, I don't live there, so i'm really not worried about what they pay for gas... :x:

[WildIrish]

yes, but see, I don't live there, so i'm really not worried about what they pay for gas... :x:




:yikes:


How American of you! :grin:

[PantyFanatic]

Classes for Astronomy 101 are now open for the Fall session.

Sign Up Now!!
:rofl:

[Oldfart]

If I can further muddy the waters, when gas is sold to the petrol station by the oil companies

they work out the volume it would have taken at 20C and bill for that volume.

Volumes at the bowser are not corrected for temperature.

Where I live it rarely goes below 20C, so I'm always behind the 8 ball.

[jseal]

wanderingsoul ,

If you review the sources, I believe that you’ll find that the reason presented for the invasion of Iraq was the purported possession of and efforts to acquire additional weapons of mass destruction (WMD), not due to the 9/11 incidents. That these armaments did not in fact exist does not invalidate them being the – wrong – basis for the invasion.

An intelligence assessment/critique: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB80/

An unflattering review by John Dean: http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030606.html

The CIA’s 2002 assessment: http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd/Iraq_Oct_2002.htm

From the International Institute for Strategic Studies: http://www.iiss.org/news-more.php?itemID=88

Note how the failure to find the expected WMDs “has intensified the debate about justification for the war” : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3722306.stm

Finally, if you read Tony Blair's speech to his Party’s conference in Brighton, you’ll see that he eventually recognized that the basis for the invasion of Iraq was wrong: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3697434.stm

And: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3692996.stm


This contrasts with the military support provided to the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan by the US and the UK which helped overthrow the Taleban government which had provided support for al-Quaeda, the organization responsible for the 9/11 – as well as a number of other – incidents.

[dicksbro]

Trains are disappearing. Rails are being torn up. Passenger ridership is down. Trucks are clogging the highways. Mass transit systems have to be heavily subsidized even in the busy NE corridor. Bus routes are being curtailed in many cities. I guess if we insist on driving cars when alternatives are available ... oil usage will keep going up. If we don't do something to increase mileage per vehicle, usage will keep going up. If we keep refusing to have refineries built because they don't look nice ... dependence on foreign refineries goes up. If we can' cut down a tree or put derricks in the water, we won't get more production. If we depend on foreign countries who are anxious to milk us for our money, costs will rise. If we don't go to low/no till farming and insist on plowing the fields and spreading the fertilizers and insecticides ... usage goes up. If we can't use ethanol or methanol, usage goes up.

If we keep our air conditioners on high in the summer and furnaces running hard int he winter and don't want to use nuclear energy ... usage goes up. If we insist on using clothes dryers instead of clotheslines; dishwashers instead of hands and towels; can't wear a shirt two days in a row or any of the other things we do (including computer and TV use), usage goes up.

We can complain about politicians, but the fact is, I bet every (ok most) well-to-do senators and congressional representative have oil holdings. Doesn't matter about party ... they all are looking to increase the value of their portfolios. In fact, the few we like to point fingers at probably have blind trusts managing their portfolios.

There used to be an ol' cartoon cartacter called POGO (some may remember him). His words of wisdom included ... "We have met the enemy and they is us."

I think he was right.

[wanderingsoul]

interesting. Thank you for all of you're opinions.

[BIBI]

This contrasts with the military support provided to the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan by the US and the UK which helped overthrow the Taleban government which had provided support for al-Quaeda, the organization responsible for the 9/11 – as well as a number of other – incidents.

jseal,

The Canadian Military participated too jseal in Afghanistan.

[PantyFanatic]

jseal,

The Canadian Military participated too jseal in Afghanistan.
I seem to recall that.

So we went ahead and bombed them and killed 6 Canadians I think.
Another slick move. :bang:

[BIBI]

I seem to recall that.

So we went ahead and bombed them and killed 6 Canadians I think.
Another slick move. :bang:

"Friendly Fire" killed four and injured eight Canadians......how I detest that phrase friendly fire.

I remember the first time I heard it. A mother who had lost her son to "friendly fire" during the Viet Nam war fought long and hard to find out what really had happened to her boy.

I remember a movie was made about her fight. Carol Burnett of all people played the relentless mom.

[jseal]

PantyFanatic,

Yes, the overthrow of the Taleban was, if not a "slick move", at least beneficial for the general populace.

[jseal]

jseal,

The Canadian Military participated too jseal in Afghanistan.

BIBI,

Yesm, and as part of NATO, several other nations have contributed peacekeeping personnel.

[BIBI]

BIBI,

Yesm, and as part of NATO, several other nations have contributed peacekeeping personnel.

jseal,

They were involved in offensive action against the Taliban too during Operation Apollo.

[jseal]

jseal,

They were involved in offensive action against the Taliban too during Operation Apollo.

BIBI,

Yesm. I believe that NATO became involved after the Taleban was replaced.

[Steph]

PantyFanatic,

Yes, the overthrow of the Taleban was, if not a "slick move", at least beneficial for the general populace.


jseal,

Please list the benefits. I'm genuinely interested.

BIBI,

I just spoke of my hatred for the term 'friendly fire', too.

[jseal]

Steph,

Given the unfortunate results which occurred the last time we discussed these issues, I hope you will understand my reluctance to again become engaged in a public debate of them. I suggest that we review them in private.

[WildIrish]

Classes for Astronomy 101 are now open for the Fall session.

Sign Up Now!!
:rofl:



Astronomy 101? :confused:

[PantyFanatic]

Astronomy 101? :confused:
(I thought you'd never ask :D)

That's where we can find out if the univers really DOES REVOLVE AROUND THE CRACK OF OUR ASS. :rofl:











:grin:

[PantyFanatic]

.......I suggest that we review them in private.
Hey WildIrish…………….. :D

This may be a good day for us to die. Hell is going to be froze over. :grin:

[jseal]

PantyFanatic,

Please don't be discourteous.

[PantyFanatic]

I’m enjoying the conversation with WanderingSoul, Alasse, Zephreck, LonelyArmyWife, WildIrish, OldFArt, DicksBro, Bibi and Steph is all. :)





OMG!!!! :yikes: …………… I said I enjoyed Steph. :bang:

[BIBI]

OMG!!!! :yikes: …………… I said I enjoyed Steph. :bang:



:nopics:

[sodaklostsoul]

Ya...^^^^^ what she said!!!!

/me runs outta here fast before Steph can catch me!

[WildIrish]

You can't run faster than her monkeys can fly. :D


Then again you don't have to outrun the monkeys...you just need to outrun PF. :grin:

[sodaklostsoul]

He's old I can out run him!!!

[WildIrish]

He's old I can out run him!!!


If you've got panties on...he can keep up. He's like a hungry animal. lmfao

[sodaklostsoul]

/me takes off panties before running outta here!

[WildIrish]

/me drools all over his shirt

[sodaklostsoul]

/me gives WI my panites for a bib.........ohhhh won't PF be jealous!!!

[PantyFanatic]

:faint:

[WildIrish]

/me reaches to catch the falling PF but gets momentarily overcome by the heavenly scent of my spiffy new bib, thus letting Uncle Panty crash to the ground at my feet.

[sodaklostsoul]

OMG.....LMAO

Poor PF..so unloved today!!

((PF))

[PantyFanatic]

:(





I'll PANTIEStry PANTIESto PANTIESthink PANTIESof PANTIESa PANTIESway PANTIESyou PANTIEScan PANTIESmake PANTIESit PANTIESup PANTIESto PANTIESme.

[sodaklostsoul]

/me runs back to pick "Uncle Panty" up off the ground and set him on his feet thus giving him a kiss on his cheek and then me runs away again.

[WildIrish]

OMG.....LMAO

Poor PF..so unloved today!!

((PF))



It's not that he's unloved...











I just love the scent of a woman more. :D

[Aqua]

/me stands here looking back at this thread with his mouth hung open

WTF mate? :eek:

[WildIrish]

/me sneaks up behind ^^^ and pants's him while his mouth is hanging open.


Uhhh...I mean while he's distracted. :eek:

[lonelyarmywife]

Good god this went off topic quick...

Byt the way, why are we running again?

[WildIrish]

By the way, why are we running again?




Running uses less gas. Phew, that should turn us around and get us headed back to the topic.

[PantyFanatic]

/me stands here looking back at this thread with his mouth hung open

WTF mate? :eek:
Not my fault you show up late and miss all the fun. :rolleyes2










(We'll be appearing in the lounge next week for only one show per night.) ;)

[LixyChick]

Who stole my soap box? I had one made especially for this type of occasion!

*walks away, mumbling..."They prolly burned it in place of buying gasoline (damn gas prices) to fuel the fire to burn this thread to the ground"* :rofl:

[jseal]

LixyChick,

Hey there! Long time, no see! :)

[Steph]

(We'll be appearing in the lounge next week for only one show per night.) ;)

Table 23, try the steak! :wave:

[jseal]

Tying this back to the "Pixies CD ~ Katrina" thread, the BBC reports (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4192218.stm) that 21 oil platforms have been evacuated in the Gulf of Mexico, where approx. 25% of U.S, oil and gas comes from. That reduction in production may jack the price up even higher.

[Cheyanne]

Speaking of steak....what does it taste like? (I know it isn't like chicken) LOL

All I know is what I experience... I can't speak for others. We are what is termed as Middle Class. I am beginning to believe that that section of our society is going to slowly cease to exist and the Middle Class is going to seep into the Lower Level closer to poverty. My reasoning (again speaking from my own experience) is this -

Wages aren't going up, more people in our area are getting layed off, groceries are going up, gas is going up, all prices are going up. I understand that the reasoning for this is being blamed on crude oil prices because it is so much more expensive to transport products that are needed by consumers. That is what we are being told anyway.

I don't know... all I DO know is that it is getting more and more difficult to pay our bills, feed the kids, purchase the items that are NEEDED, not just wanted. We are dreading this winter - living in the country we use LP as a heat source. We are looking at wearing layers in the house to stay warm.

Wages in our area are being affected (effected?) by immigration (legal and illegal). What was once a $12.00 per hour job is now at minimum wage without insurance or benefits. Many people I know are dropping their health insurance coverage in order to give themselves a raise (while praying that no one becomes ill). Farmers are turning to building hog confinments on their land to make money which more often than not are close to residential areas or within 500 yards of a home in the country. That causes property values to drop between $5,000 - $20,000 but doesn't seem to curtail the rising property taxes. Cause and Effect - Robbing Peter to Pay Paul - oh, and if by chance you do drop your health insurance in order to feed your family with the little bit of money you will save and happen to get sick and have major medical expenses, the government has made it more difficult for you to declare bankruptcy.

I guess I am done... :(

[osuche]

I think Chey has the most honest comments of the group.

The economy is turning global. And that means that eventually there will be a global labor market, a global housing market, and even a global food market. That means that wage prices will fall and standard of living will fall -- as some resources get re-allocated to places like Indian and China where the standard of living is *much* lower.

Yes, our standard of living is going down. It's not GW's fault, nor is it Tony Blair's. It's the sign of our times, and while sad it's inevitable.

OK....message of doom is complete....please carry on.

[LixyChick]

As unpopular as this next statement will be to some...I cannot curtail myself from typing it!

"IT" (whatever one believes to be the major reason for rising fuel prices) isn't necessarily NOT GW's fault either. I don't blame him wholeheartedly...but he sure ain't got a grasp on the "cause and effect" issue what-so-ever!!!!!

And yes...I know he has his "yes" men whispering in his ear that "this and that" has to be done and the process will sacrifice the few for the many...and therein lies the problem. He has no idea of the plight of the common man and has no intention of educating himself about it!!!!!!! The rich get richer...and we schlubs just try and keep our heads above water or grab a log to hold on to while we fall over the falls!

^^^just my humble opinion...and it can't be swayed...so don't try...lmfao!

On a lighter note...HIYA jseal...and everyone!!!! *HUGS*

[jseal]

Gentlefolk,

Katrina’s winds have already been felt (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4193946.stm) in the Gulf of Mexico, with oil production of 650,000 barrels per day closed down, as well as seven refineries and an offshore terminal. In Asian trading this morning, future oil contracts increased almost $5 to a high of over $70, before falling back to just below $70.

[Steph]

The economy is turning global. And that means that eventually there will be a global labor market, a global housing market, and even a global food market. That means that wage prices will fall and standard of living will fall -- as some resources get re-allocated to places like Indian and China where the standard of living is *much* lower.

Yes, our standard of living is going down. It's not GW's fault, nor is it Tony Blair's. It's the sign of our times, and while sad it's inevitable.

OK....message of doom is complete....please carry on.

I humbly disagree with the doomday message.

I refer again to Friedman's book. He argues that outsourcing to China, India, Russia, etc. will cause their economies to rise to First World standards & it will eventually benefit all (however, many unskilled labourers will have to make allowances for the 'knowledge economy').

[maddy]

seems a hurricane of mass destruction ran the prices up some more... i heard on the news yesterday that environmental restrictions were lifted for special blends being required in certain areas...

[PantyFanatic]

I still haven't heard of ANYPLACE on the globe that doesn't have it if you have the $$$, other than where Mother Nature broke the line to the cash register. I guess I need to be more open minded about the alchemy effects of green paper. :rolleyes2

[jseal]

As a rule, Market economies allocate products by perceived value, Command economies allocate products by queue.

[lonelyarmywife]

Most everything has dropped back under $3 a gallon here - heard on the news it was supposed to go a bit lower, like 2.50. That's encouraging, I guess, although still high.

[jseal]

As supply has increased, the price has gone down.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4217950.stm

Not quite enough for me though. I guess I'm greeedy. :)

[Fangtasia]

Still going up here.....AU$1.22 for unleaded petrol at present

[wyndhy]

i noticed a huge fluctuation between stations suddenly, about 15 cents. it seems that once it got up over $3.15-ish, companies just went their own way. usually the difference is only 2/3 cents.

[maddy]

no increase in the supply locally still at the same $3.19 I paid on Friday evening.

[sodaklostsoul]

I saw a station today at 2.99.

[PantyFanatic]

$3.19 / Gal in the Cleveland area today. :(



note:
($1.22 AUD / lt = $2.91 USD / Gal)

[Fangtasia]

Gone up again...its $1.29c per litre

[Fangtasia]

($1.22 AUD / lt = $2.91 USD / Gal)

And where is the conversion for the Aussies on your fuel??????????????? :bang:

[BIBI]

$1.39 a litre here today

so one US gallon is 3.8 litres is $5.28 a US gallon :hair:

[PantyFanatic]

So that's $4.44 USD? :confused:

[BIBI]

It's now at $1.19.5 per litre.....

What a bunch of bullcrap this is.