No Shower after Childbirth Asian and Western conflict

[ChinesePussy]

:( I know that according to Chines, Korean and Vietnamese. According to traditional Chinese belief, mothers need a month of bed rest to recover after childbirth. "No showers, no baths, because the mother may catch a cold and all the energy she has left will be washed away,"

how do you guys think about this issue ? expecially women. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

http://pregnancytoday.com/reference/articles/world.htm


http://www.channelnewsasia.com/baby/chinese.htm


http://www.nursingcenter.com/prodev/ce_art....asp?tid=408218 (http://www.nursingcenter.com/prodev/ce_article.asp?tid=408218)



in the western world, they think we Chinese are crazy no shower for 30 days? :( :(

I kind of don't belive in 30 days without shower. But my mother keep telling me 30 day without shower after childbirth. :(

i heard from my mum that many women she knew refused to believe in this "refrain from bathing/showering" myth, in the end, they suffer very bad rheumatism and a few nearly died/ had fever after showering. Most women will just wipe themselves clean during this 30 days period.
Well, better safe than sorry.

A Korean Woman’s Postpartum Experience in the United States
I came to the United States in 1992, was married to an American in 1995, and gave birth in the United States twice in the late 1990s. My first experience giving birth was difficult and included a third degree laceration and significant pain after giving birth. Nevertheless, approximately 30 minutes after giving birth, my nurse suggested that I take a shower, explaining that a shower would refresh and strengthen me. I felt a certain degree of conflict, for Korean culture prohibits bathing immediately after giving birth. However, I followed her instruction, largely because my culture also teaches respect for authority.

After the shower, the nurse brought an ice container full of bottles of juice, explaining that because I had lost a lot of blood and fluids, I needed to drink as much liquid as I could. Again, I felt a conflict, for Korean practice (which follows the humoral theory) dictates that a new mother is not supposed to drink cold liquids.

Circumstances required that my husband and I had to stay at a home other than our own for a few days after my discharge from the hospital; the homeowner kept the temperature of the home very low. Again, according to Korean practice, a new mother is supposed to cover up with blankets and keep warm to protect her loose bones; according to this belief, if I failed to do so, I would suffer from bone pain or rheumatism in my old age. Although as a nurse I had been educated in Western postpartum practices, I found I still believed in the traditional Korean postpartum practices, whether or not they had grounding in Western medical theory.

Another frustration was food. After I gave birth, my husband brought me the same meals that Americans usually eat at home, such as bagels or muffins for breakfast, and sandwiches for lunch. I wondered why my husband and his family did not prepare special foods for me, since I was a new mother. I sorely missed miyuk-kuk , the hot and smelly seaweed soup, which is routinely served to every new mother in Korea. Other American attitudes and behaviors also confused and disappointed me. Approximately 7 days after I gave birth to our baby daughter, my husband’s family gathered to celebrate her arrival. I felt that all their concern was for the baby, rather than for me, the new mother. In Korea, very elaborate consideration and attention is granted to the new mother after birth. As a Korean, I also looked forward to enjoying the role of a patient until my full recovery, usually lasting 1 month. I remembered my sister’s postpartum period in Korea. After having her baby, she came to our home to receive postpartum care from our mother. For about a month, my sister’s only duties were to eat and sleep to restore her health. In contrast, my American husband and his family treated me as a healthy person who could resume normal activities almost immediately. For example, my husband expected me to drive to the pediatrician’s clinic for the baby’s first physical checkup 7 days after giving birth.

After my second birth experience 3 years later I felt less conflict, for I had learned how to negotiate differences between my culture and my husband’s. Because I had become more acculturated, I felt less conflict with American practices, but nevertheless, I still felt that a new mother receives inadequate consideration in the United States. Within an hour of giving birth, a nurse brought me my baby and asked me to sleep with her, explaining that this would increase infant-mother attachment. During the night, I called my nurse twice and asked her to take the baby to the nursery, because I was still tired, and wanted to sleep without interruption. Korean culture had taught me that maternal rest is crucial to recovery. But the nurse’s comments made me feel guilty—as if I were an incompetent and lazy mother—so I held the baby thorough the night. The next morning, when I told my husband about the experience, he was delighted that our new daughter had slept with her mother. Again, I saw that in America less consideration is given for maternal rest than in Korea.

[Sharni]

I'll took a shower prettywell straight after

[Lilith]

I love learning about cultural differences and this certainly is a prime example of how one event is celebrated and revered differently. In America alone, there are very differing views about how maternity, birth, and those first weeks/months should be handled. Our differing cultural views are what make us interesting.

[WildIrish]

Mrs. WI can't stand not being able to take a shower. She barely lasted a few hours.

I can appreciate the idea behind it though.

[wyndhy]

answering stricktly from the good-for-you angle, you can't convince me there would be good reasons to not clean or move your body. as for the spirititual side, ya gotta do what ya gotta do...trying to blend them like you have, is probably the best way to cope with the differences.

[ChinesePussy]

I am in my confusing period now.

I am planning to get pregnant next year. But all these western and asian medication so conflict I really afraid to make mistake.

yah my husband is Asian as well. He is Chinese. But he does not know anything about Chinese woman after labor. I talked to his mother in China. she told me that I can take a very quick warm shower and wash my hair only 1 a week after birth. She told me to wash myself only 7 days after birth , but only 1 / week. But then there are some diet she told me just same as my mother. BUt my mother told me that my mother in law in China is wrong, it is supposed to be shower after 30 days not 7 days.

[Lilith]

Why don't you go to the library and get some books on cultural traditions regarding birth and then get some current medical books and see what ideas you believe in?

[ChinesePussy]

Yes Lilith

I tried to do those research, but I can not find any documment from the Western doctor talk about the Eastern's theory. :(

For other who wondering,

this not taking a shower for 30 days is nothing relate to the culture. It is relate to the Asian medication theory from doctor. if you think about Asian medication and Western medication, you will understand there are a lot of thing conflict. For example green tea was from eastern doctor recommended million years ago, but the west didn't know until recent years. There are a lot of other examples as well, I can not think of all right now.

[LixyChick]

Not a mother here...and not Chinese either...but of Western culture...so what I say is my opinion and mine alone.

I don't think hygiene is anything to mess with around a newborn. Can you imagine a female surgeon who just had a baby, NOT bathing for the sake of tradition at her next surgery? The human body, as an adult, can withstand many more germs than a newborn baby can. We create and come in contact with zillions of germs on a daily basis. If we don't wash...we'll catch something and/or pass it along to anyone we come in contact with. If we happen to catch a cold (for example), we can use precautions to prevent spreading it to another. We can wash our hands often, not sneeze into our hands, don't shake hands with another person (or in the case of a baby, don't touch the baby's hands or eyes or nose without washing first...so the baby won't touch it's own eyes with it's hands or come in contact with our germs). It's not the worst thing in the world for us (as adults) to catch a cold...but if we don't bathe and we DO get a cold or virus, we'll almost surely pass it along to the baby...who's body hasn't formed the immunities to fight it as well as we can.

In essence...I think a woman would be MORE at risk in getting sick if she didn't wash than if she did. It seems that the Chinese have some old wives tales too (we have several in the Western culture)...and if you check with more modern Chinese woman, and experts in the medical field, I think you'll find this to be just that...an old wives tale!

Also...in some cultures...a woman would work in a field and just at the time of childbirth, go to seclusion...have the baby on her own...clean herself up and the baby as well...strap it to her back and go back to the fields to work again. I don't recommened it...but it's been known to happen.

Having a baby, unless there are complications, doesn't make us the gentle flower that was once thought. If the pregnancy was normal...and the delivery was normal...and the baby and yourself don't develope any complications...a woman can be back to her old self (pre-pregnancy) in a matter of days. The bleeding that follows the birth is normal for a few weeks, maybe, but the body is already changing back to what it was before the pregnancy. It's a misnomer to think that pregnancy makes the woman "frail". Our bodies were meant to do that job and we've done it well...generation after generation. Yes, there are complicated pregnancies and these cases need "special" treatment. But for the most part...you get pregnant, you stay that way for 9+ months, you deliver the baby, you bond (bonding has been proven to make a baby feel safer and happier in it's first hours/days/weeks/months after the birth), and then you're off...to raise the baby you planned to have and care for!

Times have changed CP! You said it yourself with the green tea statement. It took us (Western culture) a while to realize the healing properties of it...and it might take the "old time" Chinese culture a while to realize just how strong and smart and healthy and caring the new mother really is!

[Loulabelle]

Chinese Pussy:

What you must bear in mind is that women have been giving birth successfully in the US, China, Europe etc for thousands of years, so evidently there's no real 'right answer' to this question. Who knows? Perhaps the origins in the differences between Eastern and Western medical practises stem from differences in climate, differences in resources available (for example, green tea does not grow in Europe, so it's not surprising that we Europeans did not discover it's medical usefulness).

As others have said here, it might be a good idea to do some more research and make your own mind up.....there's certainly no point in getting anxious about such things before you're even pregnant.

[LixyChick]

I layed in bed last night, tossing and turning and thinking about the days events, and kept coming back to this thread. It dawned on me that there may be an even deeper seeded reason for the origin of the belief..."No bathing for 30 days after childbirth for fear of becoming ill".

Way back before there was ever any such thing as birth control...maybe the Chinese woman found that if she didn't bathe for a while after giving birth, the husband would think her too frail and, quite possibly, too smelly/disgusting to have sex with...and therefore the woman could be guaranteed to not conceive again immediately...which would give her the well deserved rest she so sought! Now...I'm not making a joke here...because I know that in the Chinese culture, the women would never want to say NO to their husbands or deny them anything in any respect of the marital contract. So...in order for it to be HIS decision to not want to have sex, she may have just made herself "unavailable" in his eyes...and nostrils!

Just a thought...What do ya think?

[lizzardbits]

After having my son, i wasn't able to move because of the remaining effects of the epidural i had. After the birth i was washed up by the nurses, and after a few hours was allowed to sleep. When i awoke after my little nap, i found that i was soaked in blood and the various fluids that follow a normal birth. i was horrified and immediatly called the nurse. She wanted me to get up and shower so she could clean up the bed and the linens. i still couldn't walk. So she had another nurse come into help me get up and it didn't work, so i had to lay in the bed and roll over to let them change the bedding and wash me again. i was so embarassed, and felt so dirty. So later when my son's dad came back in the room, i made him carry/walk me to the bathroom and to the shower, just so i wasn't soo humiliated anymore. The nurses were nice to me, but just the same i was mortified.

When i was pregnant with my daughter, i vowed that i was not going to have any pain meds just so i could shower right away afterwards. I went almost drug-free, towards the end i was given Nubain, but that didn't do a damn thing. I was able to get up off the bed and walk to the shower, and clean up and i felt so good about that. I felt more competent to care for my daughter as well.

as for showering for the month that followed, took about 2 a day, until the lochea flow was done, which was about 2 to 3 weeks. Then, my daughter was colicky at three weeks, and we would sit in the bathtub, and i would hold the back of her head, and let the rest of her body float. the warm water helped her tummy feel better, and she was then the happiest when she was in the tub with me. we would spend hours in there, draining out the cool water, filling with new warm water, and nursing her when she was hungry. She's 4 now and still is the happiest when she is in water.

[ChinesePussy]

Thank you guys. Thanks for those long answers. I am very appreciated on your inputs.

Just want to let you know that now a day in Japan Japanese and Korean do the same thing no shower after birth for 30 days

In Japan A new mother is treated as if she were the baby-she's put to bed for 30 days. (by Peggy O'Mara. Chapter 21, page 187)

The woman is kept warm and confined to bed for 30 days after delivery. Air-conditioning
and drafts from open windows are avoided. If women go outside during this period, they may
wear coats and head coverings, even if the weather is warm. Baths, showers, and hair
washing are avoided for one month to prevent “wind” from entering the body.
All care of the infant, except feeding, is traditionally performed by female relatives
(especially the woman’s mother or mother-in-law) in an extended family.

In Japan, the new mom usually goes to her parents home for about 20-30 days. The grandmother will perform all household duties, because the new mom is not allowed to touch water for washing dishes or doing laundry. She is also not allowed to drive anywhere. After that time period, the postpartum mom returns home to her husband with their baby.
Between 30 and 32 days, the family will then return to the shrine to pray, pay respect, and to offer thanks for a safe delivery and healthy child. The ceremony is called "omiya maeiri".

In Japan, the babies are frequently named after their grandparents.
An ideal family would be made up of a married couple with 2 children. If a couple were to have 3 or more children, they are thought to be wealthy.

[ChinesePussy]

lizzardbits

I love your baby story your daughter. Soooooooooo sweet, you make me want to have my own. :)

[d5254t]

http://www.hawcc.hawaii.edu/nursing/RNJapanese_04.html

I did a google search for the ceremony that CP described and it only came up with this site, it is rather interesting to read the difference in traditions between cultures.I noticed that no where in the article does it say she can't bathe it is more that she can't touch water for chores like dishes and laundry :-) (which in my opinion is how it should be after we give birth)

*It is common practice to save the umbilical cord in a wooden box.

*In Japan, the new mom usually goes to her parents home for about 20-30 days. The grandmother will perform all household duties, because the new mom is not allowed to touch water for washing dishes or doing laundry.
* She is also not allowed to drive anywhere.
* After that time period, the postpartum mom returns home to her husband with their baby.
*Between 30 and 32 days, the family will then return to the shrine to pray, pay respect, and to offer thanks for a safe delivery and healthy child. The ceremony is called "omiya maeiri".

In Japan, the babies are frequently named after their grandparents.
An ideal family would be made up of a married couple with 2 children. If a couple were to have 3 or more children, they are thought to be wealthy.

[ChinesePussy]

Here this link does say Japan NO shower for 30 days after birth

http://www.hawcc.hawaii.edu/nursing/RNJapanese03.html

Japanese Traditional.

One woman stated that she was advised by her mother NOT to Shower for the First Month post partum. Instead, sponge baths were encouraged. Grated ginger root was rubbed on the skin to promote healing

[ChinesePussy]

my mother also say that No shower for 1th month after birth but you can sponge bath like wipe your skin wipe your body by a very warm to hot cloth.

[d5254t]

Thank you for the link to the other site, as I stated I only found one site with info on the topic, but most of it is based in tradition and probably not written down on the internet.
I would think that it would benefit you more to bathe , we have a lot more illness than before in history. You live in Canada right, not China, so it would probably behove you to bathe a bit more frequently unless you actually have all your family around you to help you take care of your newborn like the rest of the tradition says, because otherwise you will feel awful very quickly after you give birth. I agree with the other members in the fact that our bodies are designed to give birth and heal quickly from it. I was up and at the mall walking around shopping 3 days after my daughter was born and feel that my getting up and around was what was responsible for my healing and getting back into the swing of things quicker.
Side note don't you ever notice that when you have the flu or are sick you usually feel better after you take a nice hot shower and wash all that sick, been laying in bed all day and night feeling off, I would think the same premise applies to giving birth.
I am not in disagreement of tradition and if that is what you desire then you follow it, it is your family not mine and are free to chose whatever method suits you guys best. :)

[LixyChick]

Still thinking about this here...and I'm learning more and more each time I come back. Thanks for the links everyone!

I got to thinking today...maybe...just maybe...the tradition of "not bathing for 30 days" is meant literally. No filling of the bathtub and emersing a post partum body into deep water. Maybe it's a belief that the "scum" (pardon the phrase for lack of a better one) that sheds from a new mother's body is thought to be "unhealthy" if it somehow gets up into the brand new mother's birth canal. Ergo, the reason why CP's mother said to ONLY wash with a cloth.

It's an ancient tradition...right? And showers were unheard of back then, as far as I know. So, it could be passed down from a medical stand point. If this is indeed the case...I see no reason why a shower wouldn't be an appropriate alternative to an actual bath. I mean...ewwwwwww...some of the things a body can expel during/after childbirth isn't some of the most fragrant or especially soothing oozes...huh? I'd be shocked if I did this according to tradition and still had family or friends within 20 feet of me after 5 days...let alone 30! I don't mean to make light of tradition...but there's some powerful odor and ooze after childbirth (from sweating and from the afterbirth, and bleeding and possibly feces being pushed out) that I doubt I could even stay in the same room with me!

Though, I'm still leaning towards the prior reason I stated. Ancient Chinese woman's secret...to keep hubby at bay till we "feel up to" sex again! The first known birth control!

I have to admit, this is a damn interesting thread!

[ChinesePussy]

LixyChick

In the Ancient time, where there is no metal shower head for us to shower, but we use Bouget to shower. It was still a shower from head to toe in the ancient time. you use the Bouget to shower one by one and sit in the wood tub just exactly like European in the ancient time. right?

But the thing is, when it comes to birth time, the mother couldn't wash themself from head to toe like the regular days. Can only wipe by the wash cloth.

Yeah I think this topic is very strange to the Western. But in Asia it is very normal to them.
I remember I talk to my Korean friend about Western mother take shower after birth. Then my Korean friend was open her eyes so huge and shock and put her hands on the chest and say "WHAT??? are they insance?" I told her, hey they are not insance. It is the same as the theory different between Western medication and Eastern medication. A lot of Eastern medication theory are so much different from the Western medication. For example the West did not have Acupuncture until now. But Acupuncture treatment is our Eastern mediation. We don't like taking oral medication unless we really need it. We avoid oral stuffs. Western world, we have so many oral medication. whenever you got a headache, you head to Tyleno, Advil and etc... but for us we head to essential oil(Chinese oil) we apply on the head and the area we need. Then the pain is gone in a few min. We don't like oral medication, we afraid of the long term side effect you might get like addiction and etc...

[Admiral]

I'm a big fan of the board aspecialy the advice section i dont often psto but i thoght i had to in this case.

I'm a person whol do alot of reading on reproductiv ceremonis, customs and traditions, and i had heard of this one before but i had to admite i did not know it was still being practised so i hav to apolagice about that.

And please i have no intention to come down on Asian traditions i'm all for a varaity.

Many cultures ahve had simular traditions where washing or bathing was not alowed or dicuraged after childbirth some belive that awowering after childbirth was a sign of regecting the child and thereby being an unfit mother, others where rooted in that it was a gift from god and thereby a sign of disrespect to clean that of yourself.

In truth from a medical stand point it's important to keep yourself clean after childbirth, becase of the birth a woman is exstreamly seseptabul to all kinds of infections so as long as you keep yourself warm (do not get to cold becase agine your imune system is slightly down) it more then ok to take a shower.

I'm just a guy and i dont know alot about all this, but i remember clearly that when my borthers baby was born first thing she did was to get the nurses help her go take a shower.

That is my take on it any way... i hope i ahve not put any offence towards the Asian traditions if so i deeply apolagice.

[LixyChick]

Hello Admiral! I'd say Welcum...but as you pointed out, you've been here a while...and so the reason I felt compelled to say I am glad to see you posting. Cultural traditions are very interesting. Especially knowing the root of the tradition. I'm pretty sure Chinese Pussy won't take offense from your post. If it were me...I'd be honored that you took a moment to comment on my thread for your very first post!

Hope to see more from you around the forums!

[ChinesePussy]

Admiral

LixyChick is right, I won't feel offensed from your posts. But I must thanks for your time to read this thread. I guess it won't hurt to learn from each other the different culture thing and different medication thing.:)

[Mark Vieth]

Now having watch my wife give birth to our son 6 yrs ago, I can tell you that she showered everyday like normal. I think that most women as much as guys too, like to keep there pubic area clean and tidy. I tell you one thing, there is nothing worse than eating a smelly pussy! Seriously though, after a women has given birth the best thing she can do is shower, not bath. That way she is able to clean out her system and as the body goes back to normal. I mean most guys wouldn't even touch there women if she smelt bad. So it's just common sense to keep clean. It's like a respect thing, not only to your body but also to your partner, and of course vice versa.

[Lilith]

The natural healthy by-products of the birthing process do not cause a "smelly pussy" and to be honest, this has nothing to do with what a man would or would not touch. We have been discussing post-natal customs. None of which are right or wrong but simply tradition.

[Mark Vieth]

Ok Lilith just to clear one thing up, sorry if I upset you. Ok I'll define what I meant about a smelly pussy. I wasn't talking about after birth. I was talking about those girls who don't have any sense of basic hygiene. I have known some girls who's bits and pieces just smelt bad! I did tell them in a nice way that they may have a yeast infection/urinary infection and get it looked at/treated. That is why the rest of my thread made sense about to respect ones body.

[Mark Vieth]

Well I just wanted to add one more thing here Chinese pussy. Remember it is your body not somebody else's. If you feel yucky and need to have a shower, then do it. When my ex gave birth to our son she had a shower as soon as bub was settled. In fact, the mid-wives encouraged her to do so.

I honestly think that both cultures could learn alot from one another. In particular when it comes to medicine. What's more is, the percentage of Doctor's who are asian are usually much smarter than there counterparts. Of course I mean no offence to any medico's.

History speaks for itself on the life of man. Year's ago (1900) people were dying because they were sick from not having a shower/bath. Now things are much different.

Hope it helps.