Women and mens roles

[Vullkan]

This pass weekend at my brother's wedding, my cousin and I found ourselves in an interesting discussion. We argue that still despite modern achievement of women, there still remains a lot of women who are not sexually aggressive to approach men and ask them out...or even to just have a f...!

Its getting better that women are finding more and more freedom as per this site, Pixies. Yet still are those ladies who feel better if they are approached first? Could, can or will you ladies just ask a fella here at Pixies or in your home towns, out for dates or encounters?

[osuche]

If someone is a "new" lover or a recent find, I typically do not ask first. I do believe in chivarly and I prefer the man to make the first move. However, if he is someone I know quite well....I have absolutely no issues being the aggressor.

I know it's a funny double standard, but there it is.

[osuche]

Upon further consideration...if a guy makes the first move, I have *absolutely* no issues making the second, third, and fourth move. ;)

[BigBear57]

Interestingly enough I've had 4 women who made the move on me first... unfortunately the trend sort of died out.... damn and I was just getting to love it too.

[fzzy]

I think it kind of depends on what you call "making the move" since a lot of psychological studies show that women do make the first move .... with eye contact or a smile which is a silent signal to a man that they are interested and approachable.

Having said that, if I want to have sexual chat with a guy, then I've been known to say so first .... but in real life, no .... but that is partly my age and upbringing I think, and partly that I need to know a bit about a guy before I'd ever make a move and by that time, he's either made a move or he's involved elsewhere.

[Vullkan]

".... but in real life, no .... but that is partly my age and upbringing I think,...." (Fzzy)

I was waiting for someone to bring that up that age and upbringing plays a part in how our roles are assigned to us. Sadly I am of the "older school" but have had the pleasure of an "old school" lady make the first move. But those are so rare. But I've notice in the younger generations women being more and more aggressive.

[Pita]

I am of the old school and wouldn't make the first move. I would wait for him to say something first.

Although I agree with fzzy, in that women probably do put forth some kind of signal that lets a man know she is interested.

I do know for me since having Pixies and chatting I have become much bolder and able to say what I want and don't want. Its a freedom I never knew back when I did date. I didn't know anything about being assertive and going for what I want.

I admire the girls of today that take charge of their sexuality and go for what they want. Although I admit it often shocks me. :D

[Loulabelle]

Nope.

I think being forthcoming can put a woman in a position of vulnerability with a man.

Since I don't 'do' instant attraction, it usually takes me a while to work out whether I'm attracted to a man, and if I do the asking, I'm giving him pretty strong 'I like you' signals, which I'm always loathe to give out before I'm really sure if I do.

Likewise, if I am the one to move in for the first kiss and then I decide I hate it, it's much harder to back out, than if I have been the more passive partner.

It's my way of safe guarding myself and also the emotional safety of the man in question. I don't want to be unkind and 'lead him on', by behaving in a way that doesn't reflect my true feelings.

[cherrypie7788]

This one is sort of iffy for me. I'm a southerner (and proud of it), and I was taught that women should be ladies. I still stick with this. I don't make the first move on men, but if they make the first move, and sometimes the second, I'll get a little more comfy and make some moves of my own.

Online is completely different than offline.

[Vullkan]

"I'm a southerner (and proud of it), and I was taught that women should be ladies. I still stick with this." (Cherrypie7788)

I got a soft spot for all you Southern Belles, its too bad that many consider me a Yankie (HAHA!).

And there it is again, it is what society makes for us our roles. I can understand the need to playing ones cards close to the vest for women to be sure that a prospective partner is "safe". More so I respect that. I am just of the mind that to dare to be bold--it could be wonderful or not. But then I believe that you only live this life but once; to eat, drink and be merry for tomarrow we die is a motto that holds meaning for me--though such a motto isn't for everyone :bj:

[Loulabelle]

I think that women would be more aggressive sexually, if men were less so.

In the early stages of a relationship (be it romantic or just sexual) that women almost compensate for men's aggressiveness by being much less overtly aggressive.

HOWEVER, I think that women are very proactive in attracting and 'chasing' men. They're just more subtle about it than men are. I know personally that whenever there has been a man in my life whom I have set my mind on 'having', I've always succeeded, even though the man in question has not necessarily been aware that I was doing anything other than welcoming his advances.

[LixyChick]

Seems to me that the double standard is tenfold in this situation. If a man is the agressor...he is taking charge. If the woman is the agressor...she is probably a slut/whore/pig and only worth a roll in the hay...not someone you'd want to introduce to your friends and/or family. She's damned if she does and damned if she don't! To me, it's NOT the woman's fault/choice in this matter. It's society's view of her moves and even more so it's how men see her after the fact. You can't blame us (women) for something that has been perpetuated by you (men).

The double standard is alive and well in many facets of our lives. If a man is agressive at work...he is a strong leader. If a woman is agressive at work...she is a bitch to work for/with. It's a sad state of affairs!

Oops! Don't make me go burn my new bras over this! LOL! Just my slant on the issue!

[Vullkan]

"If the woman is the agressor...she is probably a slut/whore/pig and only worth a roll in the hay...not someone you'd want to introduce to your friends and/or family. She's damned if she does and damned if she don't!" (LixyChick)

Sad that I must agree with you, Ms Lixy....

There still are the narrow minded who think women ought to just sit passively by and await the advances of a man. Some those who would see the freedom women expressed at Pixies would be using such words, like slut/whore, and Etc.

As much as society has progressed, we have a long way to go. It still is a battle for people to accept that we all are sexual creatures, having desires--including women. What a sad world this would be if women where numb and found no pleasure from sex.

[Loulabelle]

While I agree in part with you Lixy, I don't think that I behave more passively because of what other people would think of me if I didn't.

For my own part, I have more respect for a woman who actively goes out to find sex than a woman who more passively just 'never says no' and would be more likely to label the latter 'a slut' than the former, who I'd view as a 'woman with a high libido'.

In my own case, I think it's fear of rejection, issues of not putting myself in a position where I can't back out, and not feeling the neccesity to be aggressive which stops me from behaving that way.

It's worth noting that I'm not an aggressive person in other aspects of my life either....I'm never first in the queue for anything, I don't drive aggressively and I don't expect other people to put me ahead of themselves. I think it could be said that men are simply just more aggressive in all aspects of life than women - and there's a reason for that - it's called testosterone.

[GingerV]

Ordinarily, I'm a liberated confident female. Really I am. But I don't make the first move. I will make the next several, as several others have said, but I really freeze up when it comes to making the first one.

In my case it has less to do with my gender (I think) than a general twist in my character left over from crumby parenting. I have a tough time making any sort of invitation with someone I don't already know extremely well. Imposing where I'm not wanted is something that terrifies me way down deep. Even here, I sometimes get nervous about sending an unsolicited PM. So a first move is just going to get stuck in my throat. In some ways, the worst part of it is that I'm SO good at covering up my little issue that very few people realize it's there. I can flirt like anything, it's different in an important yet difficult to describe way. But even online, anyone who's played with me here knows they had to make the first move. I just can't do it.

So, keeping in mind that my own answer is an admittedly extreme and unusual case, I wonder sometimes if the typically female reluctance to make the first move might be something similar? We aren't supposed to ask for things, we're supposed to supply things for other people's needs. We're nurturers, not needers. Or at least, womanly women are. If it's true, then asking for approval or affirmation should be difficult to. It rings true to me, but I'm curious to hear if other's agree.

Having confessed, though, I'm the first person to put my hand up and say it's not fair. Guys have egoes that can be bruised by rejection. They fear risk as much as we do. I can't imagine it's EASY for them to make the first move, even if it society does dictate it be their job. But since I can't share the burden, I make sure I'm kind and appreciative of anyone who does take the trouble to let me know they're interested. And that I'm gentle if I can't reciprocate the feelings. I'm well aware life'd be much more boring if they didn't do the heavy lifting at the outset ;) .

G

[cowgirltease]

Seems to me that the double standard is tenfold in this situation. If a man is the agressor...he is taking charge. If the woman is the agressor...she is probably a slut/whore/pig and only worth a roll in the hay...not someone you'd want to introduce to your friends and/or family. She's damned if she does and damned if she don't! To me, it's NOT the woman's fault/choice in this matter. It's society's view of her moves and even more so it's how men see her after the fact. You can't blame us (women) for something that has been perpetuated by you (men).

The double standard is alive and well in many facets of our lives. If a man is agressive at work...he is a strong leader. If a woman is agressive at work...she is a bitch to work for/with. It's a sad state of affairs!

Oops! Don't make me go burn my new bras over this! LOL! Just my slant on the issue!

Yep Lixy you're right! Let em call me a slut I don't give a damn! If I see something I want and I'm not attached I'll make it hard for them to say no. But if they do say no that's OK too. There's more fish in the sea. :) So to answer your question ... Yes I would ask them out.

[Steph]

I have no problems making the first move. :) Surprised?


On the Web site I work for, I know many of the men are very happy when a woman spends the $$$ and contacts them first for a change, too.

[darogle]

On behalf of all the other really shy guys out there...thanks to all the women who are willing to make the first move! :D

[Midnight Kiss]

I more or less agree with Lixy, it is we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. Career choices also play a role in it as well. Though I don't always sit back and wait, life really wouldn't be much fun that way. But as with most others here I am more forth coming after getting to know someone. And there are such things as stupid questions, I know because the most stupid thing I ever did was ask the 1st husband to marry me, lol. I learned my lesson there :D

[Loulabelle]

It's just occurred to me that I've been saying that I never make the first move, but in fact, with Fussy, I contacted him first (albeit with pure intentions, rather that naughty ones!) I decided that I was going to meet him (although he had made lots of noises about meeting in person first) and I was the one who brought up the subject of him and I making our relationship official. Come to think of it, I also pretty much proposed to him too.......LOL....but then our relationship has not exactly been conventional from the start, he is my best friend first and foremost, and you can tell your best friend anything at all.... :D :D :D

[scotzoidman]

This has been a very interesting thread...I think it's true that women do often make the 1st move, but in ways so subtle that often neither party is aware that it has been made...my friend OldFart once made the comment here (I hope I get this right!) that seduction is the act of persuing a woman till she catches you :halo: & I would have to agree with Lixy's stance that the double standard is not fair...but that has a lot to do with evolution & how we got here...it's also unfair to the guys that we're expected to take the lion's share of the rejection for making the 1st overt move (shy guys like me never really get used to that) ...having said that, I have to say not everyone feels that an agressive woman is a a bad thing...maybe because growing up in the South, I believe that the demure Southern Belle is a myth...Southern women tend to be very strong & secure in their roles in society, & know their way around the rules to achieve their goals...& I love em for it!