Patriotism

[Belial]

Who here considers themselves patriotic?

If you do, what does patriotism mean to you? And why are you patriotic?

[lakritze]

Good question...Patriotism does not mean standing around and waving flags and lockstepping behind an idealogy because we are too scared to do anything else.It certainly does not mean to accuse somebody else of being unpatriotic because they can see the danger in doing so. To me it means to have enough faith in your country to see the potential for the good it can do for all of it's people.Taking an active roll in the process of strengthening democracy and insuring that those who would weaken it from the inside never get a chance to do so."The price of freedom is eternal vigilance"means to do just that.A quote from Franklin D Roosevelt states:"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger then their democratic state itself.That in it's essence is fascism.Ownership of the government by a private power." Does this sound familiar? To me patriotism means most of all,that it is up to We The People to insure that not only freedom but justice prevail in this land. This country was founded on secular,not religious principles and has been multicultural from the beginning.It takes all of us to keep these principles alive.I believe myself to be patriotic to the ideals of democracy,but I believe these ideals should be spread world wide,but nt through illegal wars and occupation.We are hardly setting the right example these days.If you think back to our revolution,it was the people who rose up and faught for independence that were considerded patriotic,those who felt that we should remain a British colony were the loyalists. Ever notice that the word "riot" can be found in the word patriot?

[Irish]

I consider myself,VERY,patriotic.I don't want to start any political
arguements,so I'll just leave it at that & respect everyone elses
beliefs! Irish

[cowgirltease]

When I think of the word patriotism, I think of Darogle and what he's doing in Kosovo right now. He is helping to insure that not only freedom but justice prevail in their land. The place is pretty much bombed out and they are starting from scratch.He took some pics of little kids over there that tore my heart out. Yeah he makes me proud!:) Patriotism to me means not only believing but acting on it like he does.

[Steph]

I'm proud to live in a country with free health care, peacekeeping skills, home of the gay marriages, maybe we'll legalize marijuana, too.

Canadians aren't like our neighbours and that's of course due in main because we aren't a superpower, sure.

But I like us. I like Canada a lot.

[LixyChick]

I believe that all men/women ARE created equal (aside from the obvious physical differences)...and I strive on a daily basis to live up to my potential part in that belief. I think our forefathers had a wonderful idea and somehow it is still slow in catching on for some egotistical, pigheaded, ignorant, power hungry, inner sanctum groups!

I AM proud to be an American! Of all the flaws we take shit for (and yes, there are grounds for some of it), I think that for the most part we have our hearts in the right spot! When we are good...we are very, very good (in the eyes of the world)...and when we are bad...we can never live it down! That's the price we pay for being set on a pedestal as a superpower.

I don't like that monikor (superpower) because with it comes the critisism and jealousy and anger that only another American should be afforded to sling. It's comparable to parents and siblings to me. I can poke fun at my family...but you'd better be careful what you say about them! LOL!

[Lilith]

An article I saw recently...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2004%2F05%2F16%2Fwolym16.xml

[Irish]

Lilith---That is a much discussed subject,among many atheletes!
I watched an interview,with Bruce Jenner(former Olympian)on TV,
recently & he thinks that it's OK.to run around with the flag,
depending on how it is done.I can understand,as a former
gymnast myself,what he is saying.It takes many hours,to get good,(some very painful)but other people don't see things that way! Irish

[Scarecrow]

And not waving the flag will make the rest of the world like us more???????

[Ranger1930]

Patriotism to me, means supporting your troops. And beliving in your country, even if you don't agree fully with what they do.

My father is a CW4 and currently somewhere in the middle eastern Desert..
2 of my Brothers are Rangers. Both of which are somewhere in the middle eastern Desert.
another brother is a Marine. (retired)
And another is just Army (retired)

Just because I don't completely agree with The 'reasons' we decided to go to Iraq. I support the movement.
I've personally gotten in several fights with some jack off in a bar somewhere who's saying oh we ain't doing any good. or the Us army is a bunch of crap this and that.. Well the troops are not the ones who decide what we do.. its the politictians The Army has nothing to do with it. they just follow orders. Because if they don't they go to JAIL. yes thats right. not following an order given by a superior officer is a CRIME and you will go to military prison. Not to mention get a section 8, dishonorable Discharge from service.. And then where would you be? stuck with a family, children and no way to support them..


Sorry but I support my father and my brothers in their effort 100%.. =) that is patriotism to me

[Belial]

I guess as I posed the question it's only fair that I answer too.

I am not at all patriotic. To me, being patriotic means having pride in being a citizen of a particular nation, something I don't see as a meritorious achievement. I am Australian because that's where my parents decided by default I should hatch. To me, it also means feeling kinship with people because they too are citizens of the country you are. And maybe there's something I don't understand that everyone else does, but I don't see how that makes sense. While it's true that I might have had many of the same experiences as someone who has lived in the same country as me and this might be some sort of basis for feeling empathy more easily, I don't see this as any real reason to feel some special connection. I can understand being proud of the state of a country if you had some role in shaping it, that's pride in your own achievement. But pride in something you had no control over, I think that's potentially dangerous.

That's not to say your definition of patriotism has to be the same as mine, which is why I asked it in the way I did. I don't mean to offend, but to open dialogue, and as Lil alluded to with her link, it's something pertinent to current events. So thankyou for everyone who has responded, and thankyou for everyone else who will respond :)

[Lilith]

Belial,
Do you feel" kinship with people because they too are" members of this site? If so maybe that feeling can help you to understand what it's like to be part of a community. National patriotism is based on the premise that the nation is built up of similar communities and therefore people begin to feel a national connectedness. Well that's how I see it.

[denny]

The involvement and participation in community and society and the sense of being connected to all my brothers and sisters is what makes me feel patriotism. It doesn't mean you personally agree with ones leaders or that one supports all actions by the government. I think I understand the personal freedoms, rights and responsibilities that the US system affords and feel priveleged to be part of it.

I also feel connected with the countries of my ancestors, but that is a bit different. I am not a citizen of Cuba or Spain or England or Scotland or the Netherlands.

I don't agree with our athletes not making nationalistic displays because other peoples disagree with our governments current policies. Our athletes should not apologize for being US citizens. If they wish to display their pride, it is a fitting venue.

Nice thread, Lil!:)

[Belial]

Originally posted by Lilith
Belial,
Do you feel" kinship with people because they too are" members of this site? If so maybe that feeling can help you to understand what it's like to be part of a community. National patriotism is based on the premise that the nation is built up of similar communities and therefore people begin to feel a national connectedness. Well that's how I see it.
Not really, I feel kinship with the members of this site that I know and feel some friendship and/or affection for. The fact that the members of this site are more visible to each other than if they had no other association means I have some more opportunity to feel that friendship and hence kinship, but no, I don't feel kinship with them by default. At least, I don't think I do. I don't think of a communal or national identity because I don't deal with communities or nations.

[Vigil]

This is one of the big questions and one that I hope people will be willing to discuss openly and frankly even though it will surely ruffle some feathers.

There is some serious Brit bashing going on in Europe particularly and further afield. But I am pleased to call myself a Brit whilst that stands for fair play and acting in good faith as personified by our remarkable monarch (whatever your politics, the individual qualities of this person are manifest and many).

But I don’t place my nationality above my judgment of what happens in the world. So I think that as with all –isms there is a pernicious danger of abuse of goodwill, manufactured or innate.

I see a tendency from America to bury its head in the sand when criticism, real or imagined, is laid at her door. The Superpower label seems to be worn rather like celebrity status where over exposure generates a mistrust and distancing from the rest. This engendering of mutual mistrust is surely harmful to both parties and sadly a common feature of all the isms I can think of – the us and them factor (no pun intended on the us/US).

If something wrong is done in your name – don’t allow government to take your love for granted – love may be blind but true love perhaps is able to acknowledge imperfection and probably be the stronger for it.

Unless I’m coming from a different planet, the whole purpose of a forum is to understand other people’s points of view and who knows, develop your own as a result.