am i a slut?

[Rayna]

Just had a convo with someone.... and I dont know... maybe I'm just a slut :-/

bc of some of the stuff ive done.....
like sleeping with 7 guys since feb 14
doing a threesome
being horny alot
other stuff...

I kinda feel crappy right now....:(

[yes i do use condoms and everything]

[Sharni]

I do not like the name slut at all

You are highly sexed is all....and as long as you are taking care of yourself i see no problem with it at all!!

[BigBear57]

Raven Hon, you've just discovered your sexual side. Personally I despise those words that label a person as bad for enjoying sex. If a guy your age was doing the same thing his Dad would be cheering him on. If you enjoy it and use your head about protection then whose right is it to condemn you for that? Most of the ones who would seek to put you down are wishing they were in a position to do the same. Feel good about you. You're a beautiful vibrant young lady.

[PashkinThePanther]

You right Sharni, its not a nice word.

Ummm, how to say this? Raven, i guess its because now you've finally found out how good sex is, you want to have it all the time. call it novelty value or something. But enjoy it!

However, if you feel this way about it, perhaps you might want to sit down and try and decide where you want to go with your sex life. But its your call, Raven, we can be here to listen and sympathize if you need us to. No sense in beating yourself up over it, it doesn't work, been there myself! ;-)

Take care

[jseal]

raven18,

A slut is a slovenly, depraved woman. If you discuss your sexual behavior with people who condemn multiple partners (either in series or in parallel) then the feedback you get will be colored by their opinions. If you discuss the same behaviors with the people who have a different vision of healthy sexual activity - Pixies comes to mind here, the feedback you’ll get will be rather different.

You are designed to be sexually active at your age. Your interest in, and desire to explore your sexuality is what, in aggregate, replenishes the species. Society (your folks, friends, community et al) find it immensely easier to get on with the many other burdens of life if the fires of youth are actively managed. Social pressures such as negative feedback about taboo behaviors have proven to be effective tools.

The transformation from a child into an adult – not an older child or an ageing adolescent – is a complex process. You will come to terms with compromise, although that proved to be difficult for me. You will recognize that ideals are to be striven for and not necessarily achieved. You are, with the onset of sexual activity adding to the number of complexities in your life. These years are unavoidably difficult.

The way you are using the word describes how you feel about yourself. You don’t seem like a slut to me, but what is paramount is how you feel about yourself. If you are using multiple sexual partners to fill an emptiness within, then you would be better served fixing the void than filling it. Take you life at a pace that suits you, not some you that you think you “should” be.

Good luck.

[tony44]

There's nothing wrong with enjoying yourself, whether it's sex or anything else. As long as it's not harmful to yourself or anyone else. So don't give this idiot a second thought.
Tony

[Belial]

Originally posted by BigBear57
If a guy your age was doing the same thing his Dad would be cheering him on.

Mine wouldn't.

[PashkinThePanther]

Tony, I think u missed the point. jseal was offering good advice, and he's more or less right.

The point is the poor girl is beating herself up mentally. We are not talking about whether the sex itself is right or wrong. Sex should be fun, and at the time it is, but Raven is now feeling bad. That, IMO, is the point. She's gone from being a virgin to having sex on a regular basis, then to experimenting with threesomes and the rest of it. Its not the sex thats wrong.

For me this whole thing is very recent, cos I was in her position only 3 years ago, and no I'm not telling how old I am. Lets just say I was of slightly more years than Raven at the moment. :D

[bordendazed]

If it feels good, you are not hurting anyone (without explicit consent) and you are not violating your personal limits of comfort, and you fee lsecure in the environemnt you are in, then THERE IS NOTHING WRONG with doing what you want to!
If you like something and can share it with someone else than that is all the better!

Relax, all is well! HAVE FUN!

[Eliza]

jseal was dead on..it's all about how you feel about yourself. If you feel comfortable with your life...then by all means..enjoy yourself..(just continue to be carefull).. but if you are second guessing yourself..using sex to fill an emptyness inside you and esentally just doing it because you think you should then maybe you should step back and regroup. Many people your age go through the same situation....peer pressure and need to feel loved and accepted as well as your own screaming hormones.

Other people's opinions really don't mean shit.. They can't tell you how you feel.. You're the one who lives your life. If you're exploring..enjoying yourself..being carefull and lovin it.. don't let others talk you into feeling guilty. How you feel about yourself is all that matters. Look into your own heart..the answers are there.

Good Luck

[Wicked Wanda]

Sweetie, I AM A SLUT, and proud of it!!!!
The definition "slovenly unkempt woman" comes from the old Male dominated belief system that a woman who has sex for pleasure, and not for marriage and having kids can't respect herself or be respectable.
THIS IS BULLSHIT!!!

Hon, I have had more encounters than you list in the same period of time, including a 3sum or 2. I go to bars, and meet interesting, exciting, sexy people, and fuck them.
So what? Like you, I take excellent care of myself, am selective, and careful to avoid disease.
I am also a member of 2 different Women's Business organizations here. They don't know about my private life, and they don't need to. I am not foolish or naive enough to think that it would not affect my social standing.
In other words, what they don't know won't hurt ME!

Have fun, experiment, and keep BEING CAREFUL!!!!
(Have you experimented with other women yet? Yum!!)

Love,

Pixie's proud SLUT!!!!


Wicked Wanda

[Nice Guy]

That is the big thing Raven, be careful. And from the sound of it you are. I've never had that many partners in that short of time but that doesn't mean anything.

I've been to a friends house where we partyed every night for a week. In that week the guys and gals switched who they were with every night. While I didn't have sex I was with a different girl every night, doing everything but sex. I don't see a problem with the way I acted, nor do I see a problem with the way the women acted. We were all having fun and doing what we wanted to do. We were all safe and nobody was treated any different.

I enjoy being sexually open. Sex has moved beyond the realm of simple reproduction. It is, to put it simply, a form of recreation.

I'm actually a little jealous Raven, I've not gotten any action in months now. And to be honest I'd rather have lots with different people then none at all.

[gekkogecko]

Basically, you're a slut if you want to be a slut, that is, if you want to think of yourself as a slut.

How active you are sexually is irrelevant.

Anyone who decides you are a slut without knowing how you want to feel about yourself is a judemental fuckhead.

[Mercury_Maniac]

can i be number 8?

[Mercury_Maniac]

the way that i view a slut is a prostitute or a pornstar something along that order,

and as far as sex goes, some people experience it more often then others, and thats not a bad thing!

hell if i could get women i would want to please them, and since sex is the way to do it then i'd go right ahead and do it,

i've found that most people are idiots, and thats that, you can't let one person tell you what you are cause how the hell would they know?

[Cheyanne]

Raven -

"Slut" is just a lable...nothing else. And...if you don't fee that you are one (in its negative connotations only) then you aren't one! Here is an article that you may find helpful....

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0339/taormino.php

A quote from http://www.segnbora.com/whatis.html
that I found particularly interesting...

Sexual philanthropy! Do people go around insulting monetary philanthropists, saying they're immoral, untrustworthy, low-class? Nope. Usually we praise philanthropists for making other people's lives easier; we approve of volunteers for donating their time and labor to others, and in both cases, people try to promote these kinds of helping by emphasizing that it is fun for the giver. But if it's sex being given, in most people's minds there must be something wrong with getting pleasure from giving pleasure. To me, this just means that most people are nuts. How anyone who enjoys sex themselves could possibly put down someone else's enjoyment of sex is really beyond me. (As for those who don't enjoy sex, I just pity them.)

The only concern that I have for you is this - It is like a kid let lose in a candy store that has never tasted chocolate....this kids walks into the store - eyes open wide, and takes a little taste of a piece of chocolate...soon the kid is eating everything in site without regard to what this may do to him/her physically/emotionally/mentally. The store clerk is looking at ths kid like "Wow! I have hit the jackpot and I am gonna use this kid for all that I can!" and keeps feeding this kid candy until this kid is sick....in more ways than one.

So, after that analogy this is what I have to say to you....I know that you are careful, but also keep in mind that there are people out there that will use your new found "freedom" to their advantage - and think nothing of destroying you in the process...and they can destroy you with lables if you allow them to. Unfortunately, this is just your first encounter being judged by others who have a set of standards that are in the dark ages...

(((((HUGS))))) Raven

Chey

[Lilith]

I will tell you exactly what I told a very sexy young woman I worked with who was going through finding out she had contracted an STD and was devastated..

Just because you can say NO, doesn't mean you always should and likewise just because you can say YES, doesn't mean you always have to.


You are you......not the labels people try to attach to you. They only stick if you let them.

Max Lucado has written a great kid's book about this very topic ( well but not sexual:p) You Are Special. I hope more parents teach their kid's not to accept prescribed labels...those kids would also be less likely to hand them out.

Chin Up Raven!

[Rayna]

Yea, I do it bc I just like sex, not for anyone else.

btw, yes I've experimented with girls, so I might be bi now.

[Romial]

*sigh* So much easier for girls to get laid then guys.

Sex is good either way though.

[FussyPucker]

Raven18, if you're happy with yourself then there's no problem.

If you have to post like this then you're either happy with yourself and you just want to "brag" about what you're doing or you're not happy with yourself and you want to change your life.

What ever it is you don't need to listen to anyone but yourself.

[Wicked Wanda]

In some way, I think that most of the readers here, but for Cheyanne, missed my point.
Am I viewed here as a woman so far from "normal" that my views are not taken seriously?
THE WORD SLUT IS A STUPID, IGNORANT LABEL OF A MALE DOMINATED SOCIETY, AND WHEN WOMEN USE IT NEGATIVELY THEY ARE BUYING IN TO THE SELF -LOATHING AND DENIAL ABOUT THEIR OWN REAL SEXUAL DESIRES AND THOUGHTS.
I AM A SLUT, AND IT IS A POSITIVE THING!!!!
There is nothing wrong with monogamy.
Of course as a nurse in an outreach clinic I see dozens of young women who staying in hurtful, abusive monogamous relationships because they don't know what else to do.
Does that mean that all women in monagamous relationships are destined for abuse? Of course not.
So are women like me, who embrace their sexual selves, their desires, passions and simple interest in raw sexuality, destined for STD's, AIDS, rape, or the eventual "Looking for Mr. Goodbar" horrible, violent death?
My one experience with STD was from my own dear rat -bastard shit -head hubby, at a time when I was purely monogamous.
And yes, I have had violent encounters. I wrote about one here. My mistake was ignorance of male self esteem. I made a joke about his penis. I was still young, inexperienced, and got physically and mentally bruised.
I learned.

There is nothing wrong with embracing your sexual self.
It is a sign of a sick world that when you are a woman who does so, it is a bad thing.

Wanda

[AZRedHot]

Originally posted by bordendazed
If it feels good, you are not hurting anyone (without explicit consent) and you are not violating your personal limits of comfort, and you fee lsecure in the environemnt you are in, then THERE IS NOTHING WRONG with doing what you want to!
If you like something and can share it with someone else than that is all the better!

Relax, all is well! HAVE FUN!

I agree, whole-heartedly. Don't let a puritanical culture put its warped "stuff" about sex onto you. Sex is nice and pleasure is good for you. We forget that. Well, maybe not the folks here, but the world in general. Sex is a natural thing. It's only when we pile up the baggage upon it that it changes into something to worry about. Nothing is so good or bad as thinking makes it so. I wish I could have more threesomes--good on ya!

Enjoy your sexuality, be safe and smart, and stop worrying. We women have a hard enough time accepting our sexuality at all, let alone on our own terms. But we have needs, drives, and desires as much as any man. And if you, newly deflowered Raven, can avoid ANY of the self-doubt that we've all felt, that would be revolutionary. What other people think of you is none of your business. The only person you need to be okay with is you.

[lakritze]

You are a sexual human being.And you have discovered it's all good.Lilith is absolutly right and Wicked Wanda is correct about the origin of the word.However,If you still think you are a slut,PM me for my address and if you ever find yourself in Southern California,Pulleeze stop by.

[darogle]

forget labels, forgive ignorance, live life to the fullest, be safe and don't let other's define you....that's your job, and your's alone

[TerrieFaz]

I hate being labeled. I have my flings were I go wild and have picked up men and woman for the purpose of having sex. I still do it but I do use protection now a days. I been having sex since I was a sophmore in H.S and been called other things also. For all the people I have had sex with I had a few of them calling me that and I stopped what ever act I was in and walked or told them to get out. Im 43 now you could do the math. I went through a lot of men plus in my younger days I worked as a topless dancer. I can't even count how many bjs and lays I had. I have a high sex drive still to this day, and my S/O knows it. Now I have 7 fuck buddies that are married and we swing with most so to us its not cheating because there s/o knows to. Once in a while if I see a hot guy out there ill play if im in the mood. buy safe sex only.........

[asp]

Guys live for sluts!

[Belial]

Slut-dom is in the mind of the term's definer. I would define a slut as someone (male or female) who engages in some sort of deceit or dishonest exploitation of other people, habitually, for sex.

[popper70]

i do not think that makes u a slut.
i know there are people out there and not quite a few, who might say so. but these are the same people who would ove to do the same or even have sex with 5 different partners in two weeks or less. but then they are proud of. that especially is for the boys.
u are the greatest for ur peeps if u have had lots of women but exactly these women they call slut afterwards. i do not understand that. i think very unlogic and kind of dump.
so don't give a shit about what this people say.
as u said by ur self, u do it bc of the fun. and there is nothing wrong with having sex. and also not with having several different partners. if it feels ok for u there is no problem.
it becomes slutty if u have sex bc u want something in return, i.e. a better job, good marks, money, ...
but if u do it for fun and lust - it's the best thing u can do and it is more than ok to share that thing with many other people. ;)
i think most of my words have already been spoken, but that can't be told often enough.

so keep having fun. :lust: :3: :69: :bj: :bsex: :hump: :sex:

[Aqua]

((((WW))))
Kudos to you WW!! I'm right with you. A slut is someone that loves sex. I think if you want to get into a label that denotes bad hygiene, that falls under the label: Skank. But whether slut or skank, they are just labels. I also think you need not be female to be a slut, as I totally consider myself to be a slut! I may have not had but one partner in the last six years or so, but I am still a slut. It's only a bad label if you want it to be. Cheer up Raven, you're in good company. :D

[Lushboy29]

I would not your a slut. 7 guys since Feb, sounds to me like your finding your sex drive, and experimenting. But then again your also talking to a guy that slept with 14 ladies in 14 weeks. But once you find that one person to spend the rest of your life with you can show him a thing or two. And Rock his world

[Oldfart]

Slut is a judgement made by people who don't have the right.

Dammit, everything I was going to say has been said.

[denny]

I am, yes, I am!

[Loulabelle]

I agree that 'slut' is just a label and shouldn't exist, but it DOES exist.

If you are prepared to fight against that label, and accept the limitations which it will inevitably bring, then carry on the way you are. Because there will be guys who may not want to be with a woman who has slept with lots of other people etc. and there will be girls who'll talk behind your back etc.

I'm not saying that they are right to judge you in this way, but you WILL be judged and your life will be affected if you carry on the way you are.

You may not FEEL like a slut, you may not even think you act like one, but if other people think you act like one, then you will be treated like one. This means men using you for sex (which may be fine now, but when you meet someone you fall in love with, you may feel differently) and women not wanting to offer you the friendship that everyone needs.

If I were you, I'd also examine the way your behaviour has changed so radically since your split with your long term boyfriend at the beginning of the year. Might it be that you're using sex as a way to boost your ego after your break-up?


Just some things I think you might want to consider.

[Ryan²]

*Slaps raven18*

No, that wasn't a slap for being a slut, it was a slap to wake up! You're one of the hottest things to hit Pixies, babe! You come along and I temporarily disappear, damn, bad timing.

[willdo]

go for it sweety....your only young once....those that criticise are only jealous

[Rayna]

Thanks everyone....

[Mercury_Maniac]

i'm definitely jealous!!

[DayDreamer]

Originally posted by raven18
Just had a convo with someone.... and I dont know... maybe I'm just a slut :-/

bc of some of the stuff ive done.....
like sleeping with 7 guys since feb 14
doing a threesome
being horny alot
other stuff...

I kinda feel crappy right now....:(

[yes i do use condoms and everything]

http://test3.thespark.com/sluttest/

[rdw97]

I don't like the word " slut " either. As long as you protect yourself, I don't see a problem. Keep exploring your sexuality, it's healthy.

[Rayna]

Originally posted by DayDreamer
http://test3.thespark.com/sluttest/

I believe I got 49% on that

[tuddy]

Originally posted by raven18
Just had a convo with someone.... and I dont know... maybe I'm just a slut :-/

bc of some of the stuff ive done.....
like sleeping with 7 guys since feb 14
doing a threesome
being horny alot
other stuff...

I kinda feel crappy right now....:(

[yes i do use condoms and everything]
Well whatever u r - I think u r one of the sexiest women on lit. I don't think your a slut (unless u want to b) but u r a highly sexed lady.
:D

[Anthony_K]

Guys and dolls...pardon me for getting myself into the briar patch on my first day on this board....but I have a fundamentally different view of the word "slut" from most of you.

I know that in the conventional sense the term is highly negative, degrading, and insulting...but in my own sex-positve, progressive, pro-woman philosophy, the term "slut" is used only in the most affirmative, most positive, most delightful meaning: as a woman who simply likes sex a lot more than conventional mores allow her. Just because you happen to like a little variety in your sex life and that you love the feel of a cock or pussy does not make you one bit a "slut"...unless you want to embrace the word with defiance and self-worth. It simply makes you a normal woman with a larger than life libido. As long as you are happy with your sex life, it shouldn't really matter what other people think, since no one else knows you better than you.

Raven, whether you embrace or reject the word for yourself, don't let those haters and losers get to you....as long as you treat yourself and your partners with respect and get the maximum pleasure out of what you do, you should be fine. If they can't handle who you are..well, fuck 'em.

(I know..bad pun..LOL)

:) :) :)

Anthony

[Loulabelle]

Anthony, while I understand that you're trying to turn the word around to have a positive meaning, by giving a woman a label, based entirely on her libido is negating the point.

Women are sick and tired of being judged on the basis of their sexuality (whether for the worst or best).....we just simply want to be women, and for the most part, our sexual drives are all pretty similar to each other so why on earth single out some women who are perceived to have higher sex drives than others and label them 'sluts' (even in a good way).

Also, if we are going to have a 'positive' definition of the word slut in the future, how are we going to work out who that applies to? There are women out there who go along having lots of sex with lots of different people, for entirely the wrong reasons (showing no respect for themselves and certainly gaining none from their partners)......if we label these women sluts and say it's a good thing, won't it simply encourage them to go on behaving in an emotionally destructive way?

My comments earlier on in this thread, were directed at someone for whom I am concerned, as I'm not sure her motives are as clear cut as she thinks. I remember when Raven18 was on this site as a virgin despite being in a serious relationship with someone. They split up and she then lost her virginity to someone else, and has continued to have sex with several different partners since then. I'm not sure about the rest of you, but to me this smacks of a vulnerable and somewhat insecure person, trying to find some self worth by being 'popular' with the boys since her serious relationship ended. Unfortunately, I fear, that far from finding self worth and popularity, her vulnerable state is being taken advantage of by silly boys who want to experience sex without having to care about the person they're having it with. I can guarantee you those guys are not telling their friends about a wonderful sexually liberated woman who's in control of her life and her destiny and who's delightfully sexually open, they're telling their friends 'See that girl over there, I fucked her the other night, she'll do anyone'. That doesn't smack of mutual respect and appreciation to me.

[Grumble]

Hi Raven,

We have chatted a few times and you have wonderful qualities. You have a high libido but you are true to yourself and you also can have a long and exclusive relationship when it means something to you.

I despise the word slut and I know Wicked Wanda likes it but thats her thing. She is a wonderful free spirit.

You dear Jacky are a very naturally sexy woman enjoying sex to the full. You are not doing anything wrong if you are being true to yourself and that is most important not old victorian bible belt predjudices.

I respect you, like you, enjoy our friendship and love your spirit and refreshing attitude.

Hugs
Ian

[Anthony_K]

Originally posted by Loulabelle
Anthony, while I understand that you're trying to turn the word around to have a positive meaning, by giving a woman a label, based entirely on her libido is negating the point.

Women are sick and tired of being judged on the basis of their sexuality (whether for the worst or best).....we just simply want to be women, and for the most part, our sexual drives are all pretty similar to each other so why on earth single out some women who are perceived to have higher sex drives than others and label them 'sluts' (even in a good way).

Also, if we are going to have a 'positive' definition of the word slut in the future, how are we going to work out who that applies to? There are women out there who go along having lots of sex with lots of different people, for entirely the wrong reasons (showing no respect for themselves and certainly gaining none from their partners)......if we label these women sluts and say it's a good thing, won't it simply encourage them to go on behaving in an emotionally destructive way?

My comments earlier on in this thread, were directed at someone for whom I am concerned, as I'm not sure her motives are as clear cut as she thinks. I remember when Raven18 was on this site as a virgin despite being in a serious relationship with someone. They split up and she then lost her virginity to someone else, and has continued to have sex with several different partners since then. I'm not sure about the rest of you, but to me this smacks of a vulnerable and somewhat insecure person, trying to find some self worth by being 'popular' with the boys since her serious relationship ended. Unfortunately, I fear, that far from finding self worth and popularity, her vulnerable state is being taken advantage of by silly boys who want to experience sex without having to care about the person they're having it with. I can guarantee you those guys are not telling their friends about a wonderful sexually liberated woman who's in control of her life and her destiny and who's delightfully sexually open, they're telling their friends 'See that girl over there, I fucked her the other night, she'll do anyone'. That doesn't smack of mutual respect and appreciation to me.


I respect and acknowlege all of your points, Loulabelle, but my intent wasn't to label all women with high sex drives as "sluts", nor was it to deny that many women do go into sex for the wrong reasons and get taken advantage of by men.

My point was simply that many women who are knowingly and consiously sexually assertive do inherit the "slut" label and redefine it in a positive way. In a way, it is similar to women who have taken the word "bitch" and turned it into a word of defiance and strength. Do you think, for example, that Annie Sprinkle is being degrading to women when she titles her series on her discovery of her own sexuality Slut Goddess 101??? Or the authors of the anthology The Ethical Slut: A Guide to Sexual Possibilities, from which I got my own definition of "slut"?? (BTW, their definition also includes men as well as women.)

Since I am new to this board, I have no reflection of Raven's sexual history, nor will I go into that, since that is not my business. But I must ask; what credentials do you have to make such a psychoanalysis of her??? And how can you claim to represent all women; while imitating that I represent all men??? I speak only for myself, and my opinions reflect my own personal philosophy..nothing more or less.

And I really do disagree with your base analysis as well; just because Raven might have been a bit less successful with her emotional relationships doesn't mean that she is neccessarily simply "sleeping around" due to lack of "self-essteem" and "self-respect". It seems to me that your analysis is based more on your preassumed biases about women wanting "emotional stability" while men just want to fuck and leave...in short, the classical conventional antipathy towards overly sexual women who don't match your personal beliefs.

Of course, you have every right to your views, Loulabelle; I simply am exercising my right to disagree with them. Most women may indeed be similar in their sexual lives; but that doesn't mean that we must deny and stigmatize those few who don't follow the trend. They are as capable of self-worth and self-respect as any other woman.

Like I said, probably not the best way to introduce myself to this board....but I had to comment on this.

:)

Anthony

[Loulabelle]

Anthony,

It's clear that being new to the boards (oh and welcome to them by the way) that you don't yet know our members well.....you certainly don't know me well, or else you might have a different view of my earlier post.

I certainly don't have 'presumed biases' about what women want and my conclusions about Raven were not jumped to because of my own views and morality and if you read my post again, you'll see that I suggested that they MIGHT be playing a part in her behaviour.

As for antipathy to overly sexual women.....can I ask what an 'overly' sexual woman is? Because that implies you feel that a woman can be too sexual....and that's not something I believe in. Hell, I personally am about as sexual as a person can get, and have been since early childhood - I can't remember a time when sexual fantasy and masturbation did not feature in my life.

My concern, as I think I stated clearly enough the first time, is that in this particular case, perhaps Raven was not sleeping with these guys for the right reason. In my humble opinion, the fact that she felt the need to ask whether she was a 'slut' (using the term in a negative way) showed that she wasn't entirely comfortable with the way her sex life was panning out.

I am not a religious person (not even Christened) I don't consider myself to have higher than average 'morals', but I do have common sense (and a degree in Psychology as it happens) so those are my credentials for my theory that perhaps Raven was behaving a little naively. I sincerely hope she doesn't have reason to regret her actions and I sincerely hope she isn't kidding herself that she's in control, if she isn't, but let's face it, in the real world, not the idealistic one, these things do happen to 19 year olds.

[Anthony_K]

Originally posted by Loulabelle
Anthony,

It's clear that being new to the boards (oh and welcome to them by the way) that you don't yet know our members well.....you certainly don't know me well, or else you might have a different view of my earlier post.

I certainly don't have 'presumed biases' about what women want and my conclusions about Raven were not jumped to because of my own views and morality and if you read my post again, you'll see that I suggested that they MIGHT be playing a part in her behaviour.

As for antipathy to overly sexual women.....can I ask what an 'overly' sexual woman is? Because that implies you feel that a woman can be too sexual....and that's not something I believe in. Hell, I personally am about as sexual as a person can get, and have been since early childhood - I can't remember a time when sexual fantasy and masturbation did not feature in my life.

My concern, as I think I stated clearly enough the first time, is that in this particular case, perhaps Raven was not sleeping with these guys for the right reason. In my humble opinion, the fact that she felt the need to ask whether she was a 'slut' (using the term in a negative way) showed that she wasn't entirely comfortable with the way her sex life was panning out.

I am not a religious person (not even Christened) I don't consider myself to have higher than average 'morals', but I do have common sense (and a degree in Psychology as it happens) so those are my credentials for my theory that perhaps Raven was behaving a little naively. I sincerely hope she doesn't have reason to regret her actions and I sincerely hope she isn't kidding herself that she's in control, if she isn't, but let's face it, in the real world, not the idealistic one, these things do happen to 19 year olds.


Thank you for the clarification, Loulabelle..I have a better understanding of where you're coming from, and it seems that were not so much in disagreement as I thought.

First off: I actually meant to say "overtly" (as in, upfront and open with her sexuality) rather than "overly"; my apologies for the typo. Actually, I don't really believe that there is any such thing as an "overly" sexual woman (or man), just some people who are more sexual than others.

Second; while I still personally disagree with your analysis a bit, I can see where you are coming from, and I understand your concerns about Raven much better. Yes, 19 year olds often can get in over their heads (both the ones above their shoulders and the ones between their legs) when it comes to sex, and yes indeed, they can be taken advantaged of by guys (and girls, too) who don't have their best interests at heart.

My only dissent is that, in my view, Raven seems to be pretty stable in her behaviors towards others. She does mention that she uses protection always, and that she is selective towards whom she chooses for her partners. To me, that doesn't sound like someone who is totally out of control and so obsessed with sleeping around; that sounds to me like simply someone who is experimenting with her basic desires for sexual variety. All of us have gone through that stage of our lives; if it happens that some encounters don't work out as well as others, than that's just the way of the world.

I respect your credentials very much, Loulabelle, and I didn't mean to degrade your concerns...but as a thinking sex radical, I tend to interpret Raven's response in a different form. You see it as her questioning her sexuality directly. I interpret it in another way; as part of the usual cultural and social pressures that are placed on women and men who act in opposition to the conventional plan of permanent compulsory monogamy and who insist on their right to determine their own sexuality for themselves. Perhaps Raven has internally bought into the belief that she is indeed a "bad" person (i.e. a "slut") for being so overtly sexual; and that reflects her questioning of her sanity. To me, though, that's simply a part of the experimentation of life in a predominately sex-negative society; and while you and I can giver her the best advice on what she needs to do, in the long run she has to make the ultimate decision about what to do with her life. I do understand that the real world isn't all beauty and perfection; but that's why we have to take things in the proper perspective and accept people's rights to make decisions on their own terms.

Also....I'm not sure what you mean about your concerns about Raven having sex for the "wrong reasons"; does that mean that people like her should only engage in sex for the "right" reasons?? And what exactly should those "right" reasons be particularly?? Deep emotional committment (read, true love)??? Financial or personal security??? I sincerely hope that you are not implying that young people who engage in sex outside of the paradigm of "long term relationships" should be automatically derided as being "out of control" and imature....for that would be as confining and nearly as reactionary as the conventional Christian Right viewpoint that any deviance from the Chosen Plan of marriage and motherhood for women is "un-Godly" and a cosmic threat. I accept and acknowledge your legitimate concern for her welfare; I just happen to think that alternative explanations can be found for her concerns.

So, really...we aren't that far apart as we thought, Loulabelle, and I do apologize sincerely for misinterpreting your original points. As you said, I am new to this forum, and as time goes on I will hopefully get to know and understand all of you a lot better. I just happen to have some strong opinions on these topics that I hope to bring into this forum..at least with a bit more tact then this.

And thanks for the welcome.

:) :) :) :) :)

Anthony

[Anthony_K]

Now...this goes directly to Raven:

If you are so willing, I would love to refer you to a book and a site that may be helpful in guiding you through your crisis of identity.

The first is the classic The Ethical Slut: A Guide to Endless Sexual Possibilities by Catherine Lizst and Dottie Easton. It is one of the most comprehensive studies on those who partake in alternative sexual lifestyles from two women who have the full experiences, the joys, the pain, and the pleasures of living a "slutty" life (and by "slut" they mean the positive definition that I stated in my original post), as well as dealing with the crises and the society which attempts to drag them down so much. Most progressive libraries should have that book available; if not, then a check at www.amazon.com would be worthwhile.

The other is a site I discovered called zenslut.com (http://www.zenslut.com); it is run by a young woman who has lived through and resolved all of the issues of being a overtly sexual being; and has lived to accept herself through her unique philosophy.

I'm not trying to swing your opinion one way or another; just giving you some food for thought. Use it as you will...or not.

Whatever you do...all the best and Goddess' blessings to you.

Anthony

[Grumble]

In my opinion and having the experience of chatting with Raven quite a few times, I think she is totally in control of her sex life.

She is though on her own and is sounding out people who she trusts about things,

Her parents disapprove of her and as Raven says they have no idea of what she really does. Certainly they would not be enlightened by the discussion that is going on here.

I know that this lovely young lady sufferred a lot when her long time boyfriend broke it off. We all can remember heartache and Raven unfotuneatly has had some of her own.

She is learning, testing, enjoying and allowing the true spirit in her to run free. She has used this forum as a balance to get others perspective. I think that is a healthy thing to do in an environment like Pixies where people care about others and their welfare.

[Rick Forbes]

I have been thinking about this thread for sometime, and I'd like to weigh in. Raven, you are a remarkably courageous, intelligent, and independent woman who is testing the limits of what is comfortable to you. This is visible everywhere in your postings, photos, poetry, and the other areas you have blessed us all by sharing. It has been my experience that when I test my limits, there are moments when I realize that the path I have just undertaken was not a good one for me, and this has often been very frightening.

I think Anthony's points are very well taken. In fact, I think we'd have to look pretty hard for a poster here at Pixies who is not acutely aware of the sexist double standard whereby a drunken callous frat boy with a number of sex partners is a virile stud and a woman or gay man who behaves similarly is some kind of abomination. Still, Loulabelle's wisdom carries the day, in my opinion. The same sexism and male privilege that underlies the double standard has also resulted in a sexual playing field that is far from level. College aged women often bear the most unhappy consequences of this in the form of date rape, STDs, and unwanted pregnancies (it's great to hear that you always play safe, by the way). Also, the fact that 19-20 year old women are often substantially more mature than their male counterparts means that these women often bear a disproportionate amount of the emotional cost of romantic and sexual unhappiness as well.

Speaking from my own experience (privileged male one though it is), I have discovered that, for me, there is such a thing as inappropriate sexual behavior. Although I have trained myself not to give a rat's ass about what parents and other authority figures think about my choice of family and family of choice, there are moments that a quiet, still voice inside me tells me that I have not been true to myself. When I use sex to medicate my feelings of unworthiness, fear, or anger, these feelings reappear with renewed intensity before the nerve endings even stop tingling. When I have important obligations to others, and I look at the clock and find that I have been surfing internet porn for five hours, I know I have substituted the artificial high of sexual arousal for the more satisfying pleasures of adult engagement with the world. And it is this responsible adult engagement which has been the foundation for an expression of my sexuality that has brought me much happiness.

As always, your presence here has stimulated much thought. Thanks for asking such a great question that we all need to think about, Raven.

[Hotone]

I always found it strange that a sexually active male was a stud but an active female was a slut. I always preferred a woman who would admit she was horney and enjoyed it!

[denny]

Maybe so, but that is not a universally accepted point of view, even though it is trending that way more than ever. I posted here earlier, failing to injest some levity into this post. Perhaps it is too serious for the humor. Nonetheless, I think the double standard is on its way out, at least in my country. Thankfully.

[Casperr]

Originally posted by denny
I posted here earlier, failing to injest some levity into this post. Perhaps it is too serious for the humor.

I laughed, Denny, I did!!!!!! :)


Anthony, I think your posts were very well thought out and I agree with you on many points.
Just as I think Loulabelle's posts were, and I also agree with many of her points.

I hate to paraphrase such long and detailed posts, but I think what Lou was getting at was that given Raven's recent history, she does APPEAR to have many insecurities and vulnerabilities. That's not to say she IS insecure or vulnerable, but it is a definite possibility and I think Loulabelle did the right thing by pointing it out. I would imagine very few Pixies knows Raven intimately enough to be so in tune with her emotional stability to make any judgement, but that's what we were asked to do.

I'm encouraged by the number of posts in this thread making the point that having a high libido and acting on it safely is a good thing - it is! PROVIDED, it doesn't put them in any substantial danger. It is a sad reality that these days there are too many predators willing to take advantage of a promiscuous, vulnerable and attractive young lady. Attractive and young Raven certainly is, but I don't know her well enough to judge if she's vulnerable or not and even if i did I wouldn't make that judgement publicly.

But it's a possibility and I hope Raven considers this advice and if she's confident she's in control, if she's sure she's taking every reasonable precaution, then that's great! I'll call her whatever she likes! :)

CasperTG
PS Welcome Anthony! Great to have you on board, constructive disagreement is a very good thing!