Just When You Thought It Was Safe To Come Out

[jseal]

Ralph Nader has announced that he will run again for the presidency, declaring that Washington has become “corporate occupied territory” and arguing there is too little difference between the Democratic and Republican parties.

[Booger]

sound like he may have hit that one right on the nose maybe I''ll vote for him this time

[jseal]

Booger,

Do it. Keep the other ones honest (or at least a little bit more honest)!

[skipthisone]

Well, looks like he just handed Bush the election.

[jennaflower]

Thank you Ralph Nadar... I agree with Skip (as if there was a doubt that I would), he will insure that Pres Bust gets another term :) Wooohooo :)

[Vigil]

Who is Ralph Nadir?

[Lilith]

His Website (http://www.votenader.org/)

[lakritze]

I voted for Ralph Nadar in 2000.He got about 2.9% of the vote.What disapointment.I still don't believe he spoiled that election,but I don't think I'll vote for him again in 2004. To much is at stake.Job 1 is to get rid of that war criminal/profiteer and his band of merry fascists with a huge connection to the religious right-wing who want to stop us all from perving at porn sites, viewing Janet Jackson's boobs on T.V.and spending our Sundays in a church of their choice.I don't know if John Kerry will be much better,but the other day I listened to a rebroadcasting of a speech he gave in 1971 after returning from his tour in Viet Nam and it really gave me hope for something better.

[naughtyangel]

Sometimes I wish we got to actually vote for our prime minister...maybe then I'd have an excuse to actually learn something about politics :p

[jseal]

Vigil,

I believe that the preferred spelling is 'Nader'.

[jseal]

Naughtyangel,

Well, technically, Americans don’t. When we engage in this quadrennial circus, we vote for a slate of “electors”, who at a later date, decide on one of the nominees. So, in that sense, it is like the parliamentary system, where the Party’s alpha member is maintained as the “Prime” minister.

But that is as far as the similarity goes. Once the Electoral College has completed it function of anointing America’s next president, these august gentlemen and ladies return to their previous states in life.

The American implementation of representative democracy is often Byzantine – but it is ALWAYS entertaining.

[Steph]

Ralph Nader helped found "Consumer Report", if I'm not mistaken. Al Gore's team begged him to withdraw from the elections in 2000 but let's face it, Bush Sr's appointees on the Supreme Court were what gave Bush the election.

Great article in the NY Times today about why staunch Republicans are voting Democrat in November.

Jennaflower, would you be so kind as to enlighten us as to why you support Bush?

[jseal]

Steph,

George Bush Sr. nominated two Justices to the Supreme Court, Justice Souter in 1990, and Justice Thomas in 1991. Both were confirmed by the Senate. In the case you refer to, Bush v. Gore (00-949), December 12, 2000, one of the two, Justice Souter, dissented from the majority ruling.

Many people do believe that the Justices nominated by George Bush Sr. “gave” the election to George Bush Jr. but they are wrong.

http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-949.ZPC.html

[BlueSwede]

I have the highest respect for Ralph Nader, but I am not about to "give" a vote to Bush.

[GingerV]

Nader lost a lot of ground with me when he declared this time.

I felt he should have withdrawn at the end of the last election because that was when he could demand concessions from the democrats. After they'd lost, there wasn't a lot he could do. This time around, I'm not sure he has anything to add.

He didn't lose Gore the election, a whole heap of things went wrong...among them, Gore doesn't campaign terribly well...never has. Nader was one of the things that went wrong, and if you look at the numbers, he did make a difference in a couple of key states. But so did stopping the recount in Florida (as well as a host of unsavory moves there) and the Gore's inability to unClintonize himself. Add to that the American people's failure (and it was a big one) to demand real policy statements from Bush, or even to take a good look at the candidate (I knew 5 people in my immediate circle, not counting dozens of more distant contacts, who honestly thought they were voting for Powell....he'd keep Bush straight. Woops.).

I get the impression Nader wants to use his candidacy to try to pull the Democratic candidate to the left....but back when people didn't think it mattered if Gore or Bush won, he only got 2.5%. This time...folks seem to know it does matter. Electibility is the issue of the moment....and Nader hasn't got any. So he has no influence....or damned little. But he's going to take over the news cycle and make noise, it's what he does best....and he's got credit with the press after last year. And THAT can be a problem, because it's just another way to distract from the issues.

But he has nothing to bargain with this time, and that means he can't accomplish his goals. Sure, he'll attract some protest votes, but heaven help him...he's gonna be running for last against LaRouche this time....and I think that's just sad considering what a force for good he used to be before politics gave him a case of inflated self importance.

What I really wonder is where the money's coming from. The cynic in me wonders if, should you chase the dime all the way back to the sourse, if some of this man's suddenly ready cash comes from people who want Bush to win. It'd be ironic, Nader running on Industry money...but the kind of funny that makes you want to cry.

My 2 cents, I hereby surrender the soapbox.

[Vigil]

Excellent use of that soapbox, Ginger V; just what they were made for.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the policies and actions, it is an undeniable trait of "WASP" majority voting cultures to absolve themselves of war time leaders.

I'm going to place a bet on the Democrats.

[skipthisone]

Originally posted by Steph
Great article in the NY Times today about why staunch Republicans are voting Democrat in November.



I am on the teeter here. I tend to be a very conservative fellow, but I have come to trully realize in the last 3 years that Mr. Bush is not of my ilk. While he tends to speak well and talk the talk when it comes to fiscal issues, his budgets and bills he offers to congress do not reflect anything the least bit conservative. I am one of the biggest anti-tax people you will ever meet. But Bush's tax cut plan did not contain any reduced spending, so it was nothing but a gimic and we will pay for it later.

So here I am with what it is looking like, Bush vs. Kerry. I have read Kerry's voting record, and no thank you. His foriegn policy is the exact opposite of Bush's, it is one of total appeasement. I dont think that is a good way to go at this point. I think Bush's foreign policy is too extreme, but Kerry's is too extreme the other way. We needed someone in the middle someone, a good diplomat with the balls to take a stand I guess...probably won't ever find one.

So basically I am at that point where I will go to the polls in November and participate in my local elections, but probably not even bother to punch a chad for president. I never thought I would have that stand (have voted in every election since I turned 18) but the lesser of two evils is something I cannot do anymore, I am beyond disheartened.

[LixyChick]

I wish Nader wouldn't run this time either. He raises some good points in his stand on health care issues and trade agreements.....but he's never had a chance in hell in winning and he knows it. He's even said that these (and a few other) issues should be at the forefront of any campaign and should and need to be adressed.....but no matter how often he adresses them himself, he can't win an election. Nader needs to find another outlet for his political objectives.....and one that would do the good he intends instead of being a monkey wrench in the mix!

[Tess]

I know the Bush White House has got an overall grin this morning. Nader is going to sap away the edge that the Dems need to take the White House in November.

[jseal]

Tess,

I would like to think that the Democratic nominee could win the presidency on his (her? …well maybe someday) merits. I’d like to think that the party of Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, John Kennedy, and Lyndon Johnson, could occupy the White House without counting on someone else withdrawing from the race.

[skipthisone]

Originally posted by jseal
Tess,

I would like to think that the Democratic nominee could win the presidency on his (her? …well maybe someday) merits. I’d like to think that the party of Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, John Kennedy, and Lyndon Johnson, could occupy the White House without counting on someone else withdrawing from the race.

I would take Joh Kennedy in a heartbeat. Biggest Tax cut in the history of this country. He was very conservative by today's standards and would probably be drummed out of the Dem party.

[jseal]

skipthisone,

In re voting: I look at it with a different perspective. My – our – THE democratic process is considerably more important that either Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum. How will my not voting improve my – our - THE situation?

[skipthisone]

I agree Jseal, but I dont think my voting changes/helps/hurts anything either.

That is where I have lost my conviction I guess. I am tired of the guy taking office and then getting caught or maybe even creating the crap and nothing prosperous gets done. I have decided that the best times in this country are when Congress is not in session and that way they arnt doing any damage.

All of it is about theories about how to "improve" my life. Well to be honest it is all about my motivation to do better not any law, check, or order that is given to me. I will improve my own life thank you very much Mr. President/Senator/Congressperson...is what America is all about to me.

[Irish]

For those that think that thier individual vote doesn't count,let me
give this example:We(wife & I)live in Barrington NH,it is just outside of Rochester NH.A few years ago,Barrington,had no kindergarden classes.My wife & I,didn't pay much attention.My oldest daughter & my youngest daughter,each have two children.
My oldest daughter,bugged,my wife & I,to vote for kindergarden.
At election time,my wife & I,our two daughters & their husbands,
all voted for kindergarden.That's 6 votes.We now have kindergarden.It was passed by 12 votes! Irish

[skipthisone]

I realize that your vote can count or not count, especially in local things like Irish mentioned. But at the national and sometimes state level. If your choice is sitting on your ass or voting for one...well ya-know.

[GingerV]

Just remember Skip, if you don't vote...you don't get to gripe about what'cha get ;) .

[Irish]

STO---I can't tell you ,how often,we have voted for, what we consider, the lesser of two evils! Irish

[skipthisone]

I am thinking I will vote, but vote for one of the independents or obscure party canidates...

[Booger]

way to go Ship if more people would vote 3rd party insted of voying for the lesser of 2 evils. I voted 3rd party last time because I couldn't stomach either the dummycart or the repugnantcans.

[seaker]

Booger, you are so right, more people should cast a protest vote.

We have the same proclem in the U.K.; at our next election the differance between the two main party's is non-existant.


ALL VOTE FOR A SPOILER: SHAKE THEM UP

[jseal]

Originally posted by Booger
...the dummycart or the repugnantcans.


Booger,

That's harsh!

[Booger]

I just call them as I see them

[jseal]

Originally posted by Irish
...the lesser of two evils

Irish,

Two boll weevils grew up in South Carolina. One took off to Hollywood and became a rich star. The other stayed at home and never amounted to much -- and naturally became known as the lesser of two weevils.

I know I'll do time for that one! Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Catch22]

You should see the clowns we get to vote for.