R-e-s-p-ect

[Lilith]

Ladies...all of the sexist degrading crapola I have seen lately has got me thinking about respect...or more likely disrespect.

One thing that is possibly confusing is that what one woman considers disrespectful, another woman may see as acceptable, dependant on the circumstances ie. don't call me a slut...but in bed you can call me your slut in bed.
Some women do not like to be referred to as girl or chick etc, but for others those terms are perfectly acceptable.

Please help me make a list of the references and circumstances you that piss you off in general.

Have you had to deal with harrassment or sexism on the job or in other aspects of your daily lives?

[osuche]

Ok...the thing that pisses me off the MOST...

Men who hear/see me talk openly about sex, liking sex, and being a sexual being...

ASSUMING that I am *easy* and open to being fucked by anyone... Be they disrespectful, dishonorable, unkempt, married, etc.

I don't understand why *MEN* can admit freely to liking sex and not be man-whores...but women are "sluts"


OK....end of rant....

[osuche]

Originally posted by Lilith
Have you had to deal with harrassment or sexism on the job or in other aspects of your daily lives?

YES. I work in a male-dominated sexist environment, where I often walk in and the joke *stops.* It's fun sometimes, and it's a drag others.

Regardless, I've always had "problems" with men coming onto me. Not sure why, but I seem to draw them like flies. Some I welcome, but others creep me out.

[Lilith]

I had a very condescending boss once who told me that if I got upset with him, he didn't want me to "go 'round pouting like the other ladies" he had worked with had. I assured him that there would be no question as to whether I was mad should I ever get mad. I should have walked out then but I really wanted the job. I eventually quit, being unable to take his talking down to me any more.

As for girl, chick etc...those terms do not offend me but I prefer to be referred to as a woman should a description be necessary.

[pinkbutton]

The thing i guess which pisses me off is guys seeing all women as sex objects and especially when they automatically assume that any women they want will fuck them i mean come on there shit most of the time anyway and youd rather fuck a pig than them!

Secondly i really dfont like being called names like slut, slag or anything like that. Thats just pisses me opff and makes me upset to tell u the truth. Sorry that seems a bit unusual to some of u.

[cowgirltease]

Calling me a cunt........NOW them's fightin words!:mad: :rolleyes:
Next in line is Whore.

[nikki1979]

the whole chick and girlie thing are fne by be i grew up callin my girlfrinds and havin them call me that it was a term of enderment for me and my close friends LOL so its fine , unless said w sarcasimthen i dont like but in just general convo between friends np.

ive had to deal w everythign from sexist bosses to sexist landloards . the latter was the worst! i was a single mom strugling (and i do mean STRUGGLING) to make all my bills one month i feel short and went to talk to the landlord of the apartment complex. jeesh what a bad idea. he told me if i wud fuckhim i cud get off w no rent for as long as i lived there!!!! i was 18 or 19 at the time and he was late 60's and normally age doesnt prove to be a problem but i had always (before that) seen him as a grandpa figure! i told him i really didnt think i cud live w myself if i did that (i was as polite as possible seeing as how i cuddnt afford to move!) and wud it really be that big of a deal if i paid just a week late??? he said im sure we can work something out. this guy REALLY started to scare me . he wud show up at my apartment for no reson and push his way in try to push me against a wall u name it . it was a constant cat n mouse game w him. on day i came home from work and went upstairs to change and my closet dorr was closed and the sleeve to one of my good tops was caught in it , now i ALWAYS left the door open and as broke as i was i can garunte u i wud never close a good top in it to ruin it. i slowy backed outta the room and went down stairs grabbed the phone and called jeeping(we were dating at the time)he said i was nuts and noone wud get into my place and hide in my closet. still doesnt belive me to this day that i heard the floor creakin whil i was on the phone w him. i told him i didnt care what he thought i was commin to his placce for the night (my son was w his father ) so i left and went over.the next morning i dragged him back w me and the closet door was open and the top was back in place!!!!! he stillthinks i was seeing things! i shudda called the police but i didnt know for sure and didnt want to have them think i was crazy, looking back i really dont carenemore and ishudda called and had them laugh at me and felt safe. i think to this day it was my landlord cuz he had the key. and there were no marks on the front door.still gives me shiversthinking about it
~nikki~

[having_fun]

Sorry ladies, but I must wade in on this one as well.

Putting all us "Men" in the same catigory isn't fair. Most of us are very respecting of the ladies we know. Its the few that give the rest of us a bad name.

I have a few things that irritate me as well.

When some of the women you work, or associate with, state or act like they want to be treated like one of the guys, but when they are, they get all defensive. I have worked un upper management most of my career. Most of the ladies make it clear how they feel about sexual jokes, inuindoes, etc up front.

However, when it is plain to see a lady telling sexual jokes, and flirting openly with her co-workers on a daily basis, then come to me complaining when they have heard a sexual joke told by a male co-worker, or had one of the guys make a pass at them, it really chaps my ass. Especially when she hasn't even told that individual that the language, or action offends her. I usually get the " I shouldn't have to tell them anything, this is my workplace". Then a few days later she is back to telling jokes, and making inuendoes herself.

Ladies it is your responsibility to let the guys know if something offends you, both with your words and actions.

I for one have found it prudent over the years, not to talk about sexual things in the work environment. But I do frequently talk about sex when I'm not at work. And believe me, just because I talk about sex openly with ladies, that "doesn't" mean I want her in the sack. Some women always associate sexual discussions, etc. with the notion that "this man is trying to get into my panties."

This goes back to another thread posted here, “How do you know” posted by Jenna. Without some of these “sexual comments” some people might not know that a member of the opposite sex is interested.

[celticangel]

its not really what names they use, more the manner in which it is said!

[LixyChick]

It's a matter of context. "Cunt" really cuts to the bone, used in any context. Seems that it's "the biggie" (the worst word to describe a woman or her parts) here in America...but in other countries it's used more widely as another word for pussy. Unless you are looking to ire me (and get your face smashed in), don't call me or my bits a "cunt"!

Other than that....how and when a word of description is used....not what word, but how it is used.....is the key. I can detect a condescending attitude and so it would vary by circumstance.

And, I might add, the person using a term (such as slut, whore, cunt, chick, girl, etc....) knows what feeling they wish to impress.....and maybe they think they aren't letting on that they are being condescending or nasty.....but they should know, they aren't as cunning as they hoped....because I'll know what you mean when you say it!

In the company I work for now thay have had seminars as to what sexual harrassment actually is and things NOT to do. Everyone is usually respectful of everyone else. There is the mild flirtation and inuendo.....but there has never been a case of blatant sexual harrassment! My boss once put his arm around my shoulder while listening to me explain a problem....I didn't think anything of this until he pulled away and said he had to be careful of the harrassment connotation. I told him it didn't even cross my mind....but he said you can never tell when it will cross someones mind. It was nice of him to realize that someone could be offended by this....but I consider my boss a touchy/huggy/caring man and I wasn't offended by this action at all. And I too can be "touchy" when explaining things......and not in a sexual way either. Again, I think it depends on the circumstance and feeling implied.

I worked for two employers who DID blatantly harrass me. One boss came up behind me while I was sitting at a demo sewing machine....put his hands on my shoulders..and as I turned to see what he wanted, he slid his hands down and cupped and fondled my breasts! Before I could say a word he was gone....off to his office. I got so angry I cried (I hate when I do that) and I was shaking. The store wasn't open yet and no one else was there and so I collected myself and went into his office without knocking and asked him just what he thought he was doing by fondling me. In a snicker, he said that he couldn't resist....that he had been dying to feel my breasts since I first came to the store for the job. I really needed this job and I felt stuck there with no retaliation. I worked there for two more weeks....making sure I was never alone with him again. The other employees and even this man's wife noticed the difference in me. Finally, I couldn't take it anymore and I left the job...no word why. Looking back I wish I had of at least told his wife what happened.

Another time was very similar (different boss, similar circumstance).....and back then a woman had little recourse......so I just quit that job too. In retrospect....as I now know I did have recourse and it wasn't only happening to me.....I would have handled things differently.....and assured that no one after me have to put up with this offensive behavior!

[Cheyanne]

When I was younger, it was easy for me to become offended by a term that was thought of as degrading to some women. Now, as I am older and wiser (ok.. hush) when one of those terms are used, I look at the person using it and determine what reaction that person was hoping for, and then not giving it. It isn't worth my sanity to get all worked up about it anymore.

Now, if someone is blatently lying about something that has to do with me, or questions my character - well that is another story. I have been told that I intimidate people who feel they are in power - socially or in business, and the only way they can try to get to me is to question my character/motives/actions to others - usually not to my face. I don't like back-stabbers.

I also don't care too much for people who claim they are thinking about what is best for others, and yet try to manipulate the situation in their own best interest... that will always get a reaction from me!!

Never been sexually harrased at the workplace or anywhere else. I guess I have been lucky in that aspect. I would like to think that if it did happen, I would take matters into my own hands and say no - and then immediately take legal action. If that person is trying with me, he/she may be trying with others who aren't able to say no. But, again, it has never happened to me, and until it does - I am not sure what I would do.

[fzzy]

I'm pretty hard to offend, but there are some things I'm not too fond of and will usually find a way to let it be known, whenever I've done so, I've been very lucky in that my request has been honored and even passed along if a person who knows about it hears someone else make the same choice ... But when it comes right down to it, it's not really about words to me, but about the attitude behind it, if someone is talking down to me, then I'm not very happy about it and can usually find a way to let it be known that their attitude is not acceptable.

[Grumble]

I have read this thread with interest.

I consider the words, slut, cunt and whore exremely disrespectful and in my memory have not called any female those word

[dicksbro]

I agree, Grumble. Those are words I also find to be very distasteful.

[jseal]

Lilith,

Thanks. Good thread.

[Irish]

I can see many points,but as with anything,the solution,can go
overboard.I recently,worked for a Security Company.It shall remain nameless but they did alot of subcontracting work,for
Liberty Mutual.My wife works for Liberty.She told me to be careful
of what I said to women that I worked with & usually joked around with.She said that they had recently had "harrassment"
classes at work.She said that they went so overboard,that many
men were afraid to tell you that you looked nice that morning,
because someone,might overhear,and turn them in! Irish
P.S.In other words-what some,took as a compliment,others took
as harrassment!

[SuzyQ]

I like all the dirty words mentioned, during sex, but not at any other time. I personally love to feel slutty when having sex, so am glad to be called that. Like Cheyanne I have never experienced sexual harrassment, or maybe it was but I took it as flirting, and even though I am married I am a FLIRT!

I had a girl friend call me a Nympho recently, as a term of endearmtent. I was not offended.

What I do wonder is what guys say we are when they are talking among themselves. In my younger, wild days I am sure I was called a slut, with all of it's bad connotations. Now if I flirt, when the guys get over a beer I am always wondering if they use those words.

[WildIrish]

I respect all people until they've given me a reason not to. But I don't disrespect anyone. I might tell you exactly what my problem with you is, but I'm not going to disrespect you.

I get annoyed being shoehorned into the category of "all men care about is sex and they'd fuck anything that didn't run away from them". Gee, that doesn't say much for your ability to run. You need a head start or something? Hell, if that's what you think...I'll hold the door and take a nap. Will that be enough time for you?

[lakritze]

You can usually look behind the words to the attitude.Sometimes you can get the feeling that someone is a chauvinist schwein without them even uttering an oink. Celticangel is right.It's not the words,but where they are comming from.A question.Does anybody have access to the Sunday Magazine in the New York Times? An article which was discussed in length on NPR last night.While we Pixies love and celebrate our sexuality and are free to discuss anything,a 180 degree turn ino the dark side of human refuse.Makes you want to tear your heart out.

[jseal]

Lakritze,

The article sounds substantial. What was it about?

[Prophet Reality]

I have to agree with just-fun. I have worked management, and currently in a large call center. The ladies their expect to be treated with the respect that is due them. Yet I have overheard more sex talk and derogetory comments from them, then any of the men I have sat near too. And please I mean no offense to any of the lovely ladies here, so I beg pardon now. But if anyone wanted to be treated equally, then they need to develope a thick skin. And that goes out to the men too. Now as to words, I usually don't say anything that I think will offend a lady, until I hear her say it or she says it's okay. I try to respect everyone equally, and just because I might talk about sex and my lack of it with some women, doesn't neccesasarily mean that want to get into her panties. If I do, I usually go about it diferently and 99% of the times will tell her upfront that I am interested. Maybe that is why I am still not getting any sex.

[flutelady]

Something I find really demeaning is when a man is talking to a woman (NOT his girlfriend or daughter or wife) and calls her "hon" or "sweetheart". Totally fries me because it puts the woman in a subservient position, whether that's his intention or not. Of course, she can correct him, but then she's a "bitch".

I like that my sweetheart always refers to me as "his lady"... not his girlfriend, but his lady.

[lakritze]

The article I am referring to in the Sunday 1/25/2004 addition of the New York Times Magazine section is The Girls Next Door by Peter Landesman.I did not read it directly,I don't subscribe to the Times, but I hear the interview with Landesman on National Public Radio the next night.The article is about the sex slave trade that involves young girls from all parts of the world and how the traffic and treatment of them.

[Catch22]

I work in a career that is 90% female. Guys are refered to as "Hey, you."

[jseal]

Lakritze,

Yes indeed, the sex slave (read female) trade is alive and well. One of the side effects of the downfall of the Soviet Union was the increase in the European trade.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3187304.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3238033.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3040388.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2884661.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2770617.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1724057.stm

It is a world wide problem, and has yet to receive the attention and resources needed to effectively combat it.

[lakritze]

One side effect of the downfall of the Soviet Union is that it left America as the only super power.

[jseal]

Lakritze,

While what you say is true, it is only a temporary condition.

Let us return to the point of the thread: Have you had to deal with harassment or sexism on the job or in other aspects of your daily lives. The list of the references and circumstances that piss you off in general, was, if I may take the liberty of interpreting Lilith’s opening post, in reference to “sexist degrading crapola”, rather than to geopolitics.

[Steph]

I curse a blue streak. I'm listening to a discussion on talk radio now where they're discussing the 'f' word.

A word is only offensive if you allow yourself to be offended, says the broadcaster.

I agree. Most of my friends curse all the time. It could be that a lot of us work in an environment that deals with sex and angry customers but I dunno. I use it for emphasis but also have a large vocabulary.

The "c" word used to be my last hold out but a lot of my Brit friends use it and I'm used to it now.

[jseal]

Steph,

I must admit that I remain uncomfortable with the "c" word.

I don't entirely agree with the broadcaster. lakritze has a valid point when he says "You can usually look behind the words to the attitude.Sometimes you can get the feeling that someone is a chauvinist schwein without them even uttering an oink." If the broadcaster's point was that an expression is offensive only if you let it be - if it is inadvertent, well OK.

When someone appears or seems to be intentionally discourteous, or even overtly inconsiderate, I am rather more suspicious of what would otherwise be innocuous.

[curvyredhead]

I think if it is said in a positive context any chosen word can be good. The trick is to know your audience. What will they respond favorably to?!

As for work/life situations, I've had guys (and women) come on to me at work and else where. As long as they respect me if I say I'm not interested right now, its a knock on the door. Don't push where your not wanted and walk in freely if invited!

It can be a real issue if people (esp. women) are two-faced. Don't stand around telling jokes and comming onto people and then cry foul!!!

[Loulabelle]

Originally posted by osuche
Ok...the thing that pisses me off the MOST...

Men who hear/see me talk openly about sex, liking sex, and being a sexual being...

ASSUMING that I am *easy* and open to being fucked by anyone... Be they disrespectful, dishonorable, unkempt, married, etc.

I don't understand why *MEN* can admit freely to liking sex and not be man-whores...but women are "sluts"


OK....end of rant....


That's totally my rant too! Exactly that same thing pisses me off, and to top it off I have boobs the size of a small country which makes men think I'm even easier (go figure........?)

[WildIrish]

Originally posted by Loulabelle
That's totally my rant too! Exactly that same thing pisses me off, and to top it off I have boobs the size of a small country which makes men think I'm even easier (go figure........?)


You have boobs?

[Aqua]

Originally posted by curvyredhead

It can be a real issue if people (esp. women) are two-faced. Don't stand around telling jokes and comming onto people and then cry foul!!!
I think I may have posted this elsewhere in the past, but I guy I worked with once was fired because a woman that flirted with him openly and sometimes bordering on lewdly got pissed that he tickled her ass when she was walking away. She didn't even work with us, and trust me, this was not a grope. Yes, tickling can be harrassment if unwanted, but I was there and saw it all happen, and that was the most unsexual tickling I have ever seen. She complained to the owner of the company I worked for and he was fired. No investigation, no chance to explain. Sure it was a fast food job, but he had worked there for almost 2 years.

Definitely a case of a woman playing around and then crying foul.

[katekate42]

I've had to deal with sexism thus far, and I am going into a male-dominated career (radiology). As such, I've had to develop a more "male" personality (if that makes any sense at all) in order to be taken seriously. While so far no one has been completely rude to me, I do see the looks and resent the fact that I have had to adapt simply because I am female. However, my personality is also such that I thrive as the underdog, so really when people get started on the sexist thing all they are really doing is driving me to prove them wrong.

The double standard as far as sex goes drives me insane. It seems that all men fantasize about is a woman who is happy with her body and with sex, who is slightly aggressive in bed. However when many of those same men are confronted with it in the real world, it seems as though they automatically label her a "slut" or at least a "girl you don't take home to Mother." I have dated someone like this (Thank goodness current s/o is not) and I have to say THANK YOU to all those men out there who get it :)