Smoker's Unite!!!

[LixyChick]

This is a subject I am sooooo reluctant to bring up....but I've gotta be me!

I smoke cigarettes! I hate that I do.....but I do....and I'm not gonna make any excuses for it. I have all the warnings....I know what it's doing to me....I'm not stupid....I know already! I'll tell you this.....I've quit 72,000 times.....and as an addict, I suffer the battle everyday of my smoking life (I was 7 y/o when I started...you do the math!). If you've never smoked.....you'll never understand the addiction....and so I don't slight you for thinking, "Just quit then". If it were that easy I wouldn't be on here right now......so pissed off my head could explode!

My husband just came home from the store with 2 packs of cigarettes.....Total=$10.50.......

SIN TAX! A fuckin SIN TAX......again! For the 6th time in less than 3 years......we, the smokers, are dubbed sinful and taxed for it out the wazzoo! We have been moved to the outdoors....or off the premises completely.......made to stand in "shelters" far removed from the general population....shunned in restaraunts and now even local drinking establishments........taxed up the ying yang.......some have quit and a few of those have made it to the other side......and we have taken all this because we are addicted and we really don't have a leg to stand on! We know that our smoke can harm those that don't indulge.....and so we move away to be considerate......we sit in our little section of the restaraunt and keep to ourselves....we pay the tax as it's acrued....and we take it and take it and take it.............till I JUST CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!

We aren't animals! Not everything about smoking is sinful and horrible (just wait to comment on that one till you hear me out).....I've known smokers well into their 90's who've braved the warnings and lived a good long life! Some people are more susceptible to disease and sickness than others.....but that's true about anything in life! I'm not a hunter.....seeking non-smokers to make them sick! I am the most considerate smoker I know....and I have never done anything to offend anyone on purpose in my life!

With all the research we have as to how bad smoking is for us.....couldn't we work on a way to HELP the smoker instead of taxing them and punishing them time and time again? I know....I know....there are devices and gum and shit like that out there to aid us in quitting. I also know willpower plays a major role in success. OK....I admit it! I don't have that SPECIAL willpower that so many quitters before me have! I'm addicted for crimony sakes! Not an animal....an addict!

What is the means to the end of this sin tax? What will happen when everyone quits and the cigarette companies go out of business? Where do you think they (the powers that be) will get the money to replace the taxes they have become accustomed to in collecting this tax from smokers? Do you think it'll come out of non-smoker's pockets? It's gonna come from somewhere.....cause once the tax is relied on for the amount of time it'll take every smoker to quit and every tobacco company to go out of business.....we won't be able to go back to the day when there was no such thing as a sin tax on tobacco! I wonder if they've ever thought of that?

It'd just serve them right for a surgeon to come up with a hemi-lobotomy that would CURE all smokers! Wham! Where you getting your raise from now Mr./Ms SINTAXER???

Whew! Who wants the soapbox now? Anyone can express an opinion....because as I've said.....ain't nothing you can say to me that I haven't already said to myself!

[PantyFanatic]

OH!!!! I WILL be back on this one.;)

LMAO

[LixyChick]

Originally posted by PantyFanatic
OH!!!! I WILL be back on this one.;)

LMAO
I knew I could count on you!

Least I think I knew....I should wait and see what you come up with, huh?

OK...shutting up now!

[CunningLinguist]

Well just grow your own or switch to pot. Pot is healthier, cheaper, and won't ostrasize you more.

[Ryan²]

LOL, that's the way to live.

[dm383]

As a fellow addict, I wholeheartedly agree with you Lixy! A pack of 20 here averages about £4.20 (just under $7!!).. out of that, roughly £3.70 is tax! (Our petrol (gasoline) is taxed the same way..... £3.30 a gallon, and nearly £3 is tax!!)

I've tried to quit the dreaded "weed" loads of times.......hasn't worked!! One day.......... :D

DM

[LixyChick]

Originally posted by CunningLinguist
Well just grow your own or switch to pot. Pot is healthier, cheaper, and won't ostrasize you more.
Thanks for replying hun....but I don't agree with your statement! Pot would make me more ostrasized as it's still illegal where I am. I've smoked it and then smoked a cig afterwards! Kind of weird huh? But pot doesn't do for me what cigs do....whatever that is! Pot isn't cheaper where I am either.....unless I grow my own.....and then I have to contend with hiding it from the authorities....etc. etc. etc.! I don't live in a climate condusive to growing tobacco. So that's out!

And my point here is.....not necessaarily the addiction....but being labeled by a tax kook and my pockets being turned inside out....while non-smokers aren't taxed for their so-called "sins".....whatever they may be! It's similar to me having to pay the same school tax...when I don't have children....and there are people who have 4-7 children that live in a rental....and so they don't have to pay school tax at all! I just don't see any fairness in this sin tax. I pay my fair share of taxes along with everyone else.....but this has gone through the roof on tobacco!

[paprclphd]

AMEN LIXY!!!!!!

I applaud your opinion. I am a smoker, too. And thanks to these "sin tax" people, I can not smoke anywhere in the town that I live in with the exception of my own house or my own truck. There has even been some talk around here of making people stop smoking in their cars because it "distracts you from driving" and " causes grass fires". The cigarette butts do not cause grass fires, and they help me to drive right and not kill everyone around me. I remember when cigs where $1.00 a pack, and now there are some places in Texas where the cheapist pack you will find will be $3. Premium cigs are out of this world. I look at it this way - they are my lungs, let me char them if I want to!!!

[LixyChick]

And.....to be honest.....I don't care about the ostrasization part of it! I know non-smokers find it disgusting! Hell....I find it yucky too sometime! That's not my point........my point is......

How can it be fair to continually pinpoint one group of people and put them in the poor house (and I'm talking all smokers and the large tobacco companies)...and then fully expect at the end of it all....that someone....some other group....is going to have to pick up the slack for not being able to collect the revenue that has become the norm????

Does that make sense? I mean....if push comes to shove....and it is coming to that.....we'll have no more smokers to tax.....we'll have no big corporations to blame......and SOMEONE is going to have to pick up the slack cause.........we can't go back!

[Scarecrow]

Lixy will you have one for me, I quit 23 months ago and I could really use one right now. LOL

[CunningLinguist]

while non-smokers aren't taxed for their so-called "sins"

1) I don't think there will be a wanking tax since so few people are honest when you ask them how often they toss off.

2) Obviously, you have never tried buying alcohol in Utah which I heard is damn near impossible.

3) No, but I will be anally raped in prison for smoking a harmless little weed that makes me happier about my life.

Seriously, we should legalize pot and all drugs for that matter. While we are at it leagalize all guns. Sure people will die, but hey you will want that rocket launcher when the crackheads come.

Secondly, the number two user of American Tabocco is the Mideast. We should start a tobacco embargo on the Mideast until they start co-operating with our war on terrorism AND start selling oil at 1960 prices (or at least redistribute those oil revenues maongsty thier pesants).

Third, bomb the f*ck out of Saudi Arabia. They deserve it not Iraq.

I will be able to run for President in 2016. In the meantime support the Guns and Dope party.

[LixyChick]

I've heard the argument raised around here, paprclphd, that there may be a law that one couldn't smoke in their vehicle with a child aboard.....that it could be construed as child abuse. Well.....I guess it could be.......but then so could living next door to a dump, or next to high power lines, or sending your child to an old school building (where there could be asbestos, but it has never been checked)......and so on and so on...........and just how much are we going to let these people do before we make a stand and say.....ENOUGH already! You've done everything but come into my home and put out my cigarette personally!

[LixyChick]

Originally posted by CunningLinguist
1) I don't think there will be a wanking tax since so few people are honest when you ask them how often they toss off.

2) Obviously, you have never tried buying alcohol in Utah which I heard is damn near impossible.

3) No, but I will be anally raped in prison for smoking a harmless little weed that makes me happier about my life.

Seriously, we should legalize pot and all drugs for that matter. While we are at it leagalize all guns. Sure people will die, but hey you will want that rocket launcher when the crackheads come.

Secondly, the number two user of American Tabocco is the Mideast. We should start a tobacco embargo on the Mideast until they start co-operating with our war on terrorism AND start selling oil at 1960 prices (or at least redistribute those oil revenues maongsty thier pesants).

Third, bomb the f*ck out of Saudi Arabia. They deserve it not Iraq.

I will be able to run for President in 2016. In the meantime support the Guns and Dope party.
LMFAO! And....um.....HERE, HERE! Power to the people!

*starts the first major sit-in since 1967*

Please ignore the man with the rocket launcher.......for he knows not what he does! *giggle*

[LixyChick]

Originally posted by Scarecrow
Lixy will you have one for me, I quit 23 months ago and I could really use one right now. LOL
Oh sweety! Don't do it! Wank a bit...but don't do it! Suck a pencil...but don't do it! I'm so proud of you! I remember when you quit! I was proud then and I am doubley proud now! Beat the demon hun! I know you can! I envy you from the top of my head to the tip of my toes!

This is what I was saying folks.....it's an addiction.....albeit for Scarecrow now, it's a mental addiction.....but it NEVER goes away! We aren't animals.....we are addicts! We need HELP......not more pounding into the ground!

(((((((Scarecrow)))))))) Hang in there hun! We are at war!

[CunningLinguist]

Paprclphd,

And the irony of it is that if you live in Houston, then the second hand smoke would be a breath of freash air compared to the perma-smog! Houston has the worst air in the country (Thank you George Bush!) and finally beat out LA which has being in a valley to blame for its poor air quality. Houston has nothing to blame for its poor air other than industry and lots of traffic.


Of course, I wouldn't be so pissed off if I could find a job at one of the plants and have halth insurance (All hail King George II!), but alas I am a pizza boy we don't get health insurance, but we get to breathe the same dirty air.

[LixyChick]

Originally posted by dm383
As a fellow addict, I wholeheartedly agree with you Lixy! A pack of 20 here averages about £4.20 (just under $7!!).. out of that, roughly £3.70 is tax! (Our petrol (gasoline) is taxed the same way..... £3.30 a gallon, and nearly £3 is tax!!)

I've tried to quit the dreaded "weed" loads of times.......hasn't worked!! One day.......... :D

DM
I can go to Virginia.....not so far away......and get a pack for under $3.00.......and then go to New York....equally close.....and pay over $7.00 per pack..........

It's ludicrous I tell ya!

[Vullkan]

I am all for marching on state capitals over "sin" taxes--I am surprised someone hasn't challenged the consitutionallity of it all.

I have an idea and I hope someone can help me with it--I would love to grow my own tobacco--does anyone know where I can get some seeds?--just IM me if you do thanks

[LixyChick]

Originally posted by Vullkan
I am all for marching on state capitals over "sin" taxes--I am surprised someone hasn't challenged the consitutionallity of it all.

I have an idea and I hope someone can help me with it--I would love to grow my own tobacco--does anyone know where I can get some seeds?--just IM me if you do thanks
I'm surprised too hun! I'm hoping PF will come up with some info that will direct us as to what we can actually do about this......instead of just spilling off on a web site that reaches far but to the wrong powers!

As to the seeds? I think tobacco is generational (sp?).....in that it has to grow and be propagated and so on.....in order to make it worth smoking. I could be wrong...so I stand aside on that matter. If it's pot seeds we are talking....you'll have to score your own and shake it.....just like the rest of us........lol!

*hugs*

[Navarre]

Thank goodness I live in tobacco country where I drive to work through the tobacco fields and the chairman of RJ Reynolds picks the mayor of Winston Salem.


I get a carton of Marlboros anywhere from $16.00 to $22.00. :D

I think Lixy and Co. should move down here.

[LixyChick]

*So I loaded up the Lix farm...and moved to Navarre's......Carolina that is......south of me.....Northern though*

Oh geezzzzz........I tried! LOLOLOL!

And BTW babe? Don't gloat! Those "sin taxer's" are a breeding bunch! They'll be in your neighborhood before you can say, "Cut my legs off and call me shorty"!!!!!

[Booger]

well all I can say is Amen Lixy baby

now I need a smoke

[Belial]

Thought you smokers would find this amusing :)

"The worst kind of non-smoker is the one where you're smoking and they walk up to you coughing. I always say 'Shoot, you're lucky you don't smoke! That's a hell of a cough dude, I smoke all day and don't cough like that. Maybe you were conceived with a weak sperm. Maybe your dad was jacking off and your mom sat on it at the last second'. Did I overreact? I didn't, did I? I think that's kinda cruel, I'm smoking and you come up coughing at me. Jesus! You come up to crippled people dancing too, you fucks? 'Well hey Mr. Wheelchair, what's problem?' 'C'mon Ironside, race ya?' You fucking sadist! I'll smoke, I'll cough, I'll get the tumors, I'll die. Deal? Thankyou, America!"

"People say 'Well, it's not that, I-i-i-i-it's the secondary smoke. It's not just the smoke that you smoke, it's the smoke that comes out of you, and that's not good smoke, just 'cause it came out of you' Shut the fuck up, right now. Goddammit, if I don't smoke, there's gonna be secondary bullets coming your way. You understand this? I'm fucking tense! Alright? Thankyou! I've been on a flying saucer tour for three months, okay? Hope you don't mind if I just enjoy my cig"

"I love it when people in New York City complain about your smoking, isn't that great? Yeah, these people are standing ankle deep in dog links, straddling a dead guy. Apparently my cigarette's fucking up the delicate balance of nature here. 'Oh, this is bothering you, oh, I'm sorry, let me go over to this pile of bum dung and put this out. There we go! Restore New York to that pristine state we know it exists in, if it weren't for my god-awful cigarette!'"


--Bill Hicks.

[jennaflower]

Alrighty Lixy...

Forgive me in advance... okay?? :)

First, let me admit that I am a non-smoker. :) Yes, I have smoked on occassion.. usually socially IF I am drinking.. I have never smoked regularly..

Saying that.. I do NOT want to make smoking illegal... and I am most often opposed to the restrictions that are being placed on smokers more and more often. I live near a town that has now placed such restrictions to smoking in public places that most restaurants no longer are allowed to even have a smoking section.

Now.. I do however agree with the additional taxes that continue to be added to the cost of cigarettes.. and to be honest.. I don't think it should be something that varies from state to state.. but should be taxed across the board.. no matter where they are purchased.

My reasons are simple... the money that is collected via taxes.. should be used for TWO things.. and ONLY two things...

1) Education and prevention... to stop people (especially the young kids) from picking up that first cigarette.

2) The rising medical costs. Someone smokes based on their CHOICE to do so... and I see no reason why... as a tax payer.. I should in anyway be forced to assist in paying for their medical care. Medical care, that most often wouldn't be necessary had it not been for their choice. The cost of cancer and heart disease (both of which are highly attributed to smoking) is causing the cost of insurance.. and healthcare in general.. is going thru the roof...

Sorry .. I know it is addictive... and I have no doubt that it isn't an easy thing to live with... As your friend.. I would happily bite the bullet and shoulder the financial responsibility.. but as a tax payer.. I don't want to have to and without a choice..

[Slow Ride]

I started smoking when I was 15.......I quit when I was 30(when I found out I was going to be the proud Father of Twins) I have be quit for 14 yrs(now ,you do the math;) )

as long as they don't put a fucking sin tax on fucking...........I'm good !!!!!


*kisses*

[jennaflower]

LOL... SlowRide... You are one of the sexiest Men I have ever had the pleasure to get to know... :)

A sin tax on sex... damn.. that is a thought that sends bad shivers up my spine...

[Slow Ride]

yeah........but I'm not gonna Quit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thank you for the sexy comment........but ,it kinda worries me a little *worried look*


are all sexy women blind?

[PantyFanatic]

This thread is addressing a number of different topics related to cigarette smoking and I have to brake them out in order to comment directly..... as well as the fact that any two page post gets boring and unread.;) I don’t intend to speak on the merits of smoking because there are none. But there ARE a number of horrendous abuses of people that smoke taking place. Pure and simple GREED of an easy target is what is happening from a cost standpoint. Like the prep school kid starting through the ghetto allies at dusk, the vulture have swooped in for easy pickings.

When I started smoking, you had a cigarette vending machine around every turn. From ever bus station to church basements and in the waiting rooms of hospitals. For a quarter, ($0.25) you got a pack of smokes, AND... inside the cellophane wrapper was one, two or three pennies along the edge of the pack as your change from the two-bits coin. So $4.25+ makes me cringe every time.

“Sin Tax” is the same as “Rape Shame”. If they point a finger at you and say how evil you are, to justify their immoral pillage, it’s suppose to humiliate you into surrender and acceptance. In the past decade, Cleveland built two new MULTI million dollar sport stadiums. After every orchestrated special-interest and political campaign couldn’t justify the costs, (BEFORE the cost overruns), they “edicted” (not by legal vote of the people) a sin tax on cigarettes and liquor. After they were built, the folks that were paying this tax were told there is NO SMOKING in these facilities. Of course you could drink........ if you purchase a $6.00 cup of beer from them. (NO. You’re not allowed to bring any in, silly.)

Now try to find accounting records that show how much of the tax goes directly to paying off the construction cost. It’s entirely another source of revenue from a source with little ability to resist. It’s pure and simple legal stealing.:mad:

You may find this link interesting regarding some of the Tobacco Taxes and Payments and State Settlements.

http://www.rjrt.com/TI/tobacco_cover.asp



Next Installment- Ethnocentric Exclusivity :D

[silentsoul]

Okay, I wanna say some things on several of the subjects mentioned here.

First, as far as cig prices go, I must be in paradise, you can get pretty much any brand you want for $3 or less. I personally smokED Camel Turkish Jades which were $21.9? per carton at food lion with an MVP card. The reason I capitalized "ed" on smoked is because I am in the process of quitting. I hope I succeed.

Secondly, I do actually support both the legalization of marijuana as well as being pro gun. Yes, I smoke marijuana and I'm not afraid to admit it. At the same time, I have a H&K USP compact .40cal within reach of me 99% of the time, usually in my holster on my hip. Those two things together don't mean I'm some dangerous trigger happy drug fiend. The simple fact is, I have a lot mental problems, most notably rapid-cycle-manic-depression. That's basically an extreme case of bipolar disorder where I can go from the happiest guy in the world to trying to commit suicide within seconds or minutes, literally. The only legal medication is pills which I can't take for another personal reason. They also depend on having a steady constant supply of the medication and in an emergency it takes at least 45 minutes to feel the effects of anything that won't put me into a drug induced coma. With my disability, I CAN NOT wait 45 minutes! That is why I have turned to marijuana as my main medication against my disability. Within the time it takes to take a couple hits, I can begin to feel what all of you would consider normal.

Unfourtunately, I also suffer from extreme paranoia. Because of this, I am simply more comfortable when I know that I have 11 .40cal rounds to defend my life at any given moment as well as whatever other weapons may be available to me at the time. The only person I have ever met that was more safe with firearms than me was the man who taught me. Firearms for me are mainly defense, yes I like to hunt but I am interested in being able to protect myself and loved ones for anyone and anything. Hell, my dream house includes at LEAST a .50cal machine gun mounted on the roof. I understand that firearms are dangerous and must be kept out of the hands of those who should not have them. However, I think that pretty much anything above semi-auto assualt rifles should be licensed to individual case by case and to be only limited by ones budget. Do you realize how expensive a decent full auto submachine gun is? Around $10,000 is about average, when comparing that to the $500 price tag of my pistol and $750 price tag of a semi-auto version of the M-16 assualt rifle you can see that there's not going to be a whole hell of a lot people who are going to have a stock pile of full auto weapons.

Sorry that I yabbered on for so long, it's just that obviously marijuana and weapons are to big discussion topics for me.

[LixyChick]

Please know......anything you say here.....WILL NOT BE USED AGAINST YOU IN ANY CONTEXT, WAY, SHAPE OR FORM!

That was for jenna....in case you wondered! LOL!

Booger.....^5!

Belial....LMFAO! It sounded more like a Dennis Leary rant......and just as funny! TY hun!

Jenna......I don't totally disagree with everything you've said. You make some good points....in that....Yes...I chose to smoke and so therefore I shouldn't expect others (especially non-smokers) to pay for it. I don't think it's fair that I should pay for schooling children I don't have....but I do pay for it....in taxable income! This isn't a perfect world. If it were....you would take full responsibility for you and yours...and I would for me and mine....and insurance and taxes wouldn't be necessary for anyone to contribute to and collect from.

If all the money collected from "sin tax" went exclusively to the education and prevention of the hazards of smoking....then and only then would I agree that you are 100% correct! But...as I said.....this isn't a perfect world......and so therefore the monies are not being collected solely for that purpose.....but instead to line the pockets of the powers that be (do we really know where the money is going?).

As to rising medical costs....I happen to have cancer insurance. I pay an additional cost for this....weekly.....from my pay.....so as NOT to drive the cost of insurance up for folks who don't smoke. Smoking may be the number 1 cause of cancer....but it's not the only reason for rising medical costs. As a medical example......people who are morbidy obese....or just plain overweight. Their medical problems abound.....but no one taxes them excessively for overeating! And one could even say that some diabetics could cut their medical costs and use lesser medicine if they would just lose weight and control their blood sugar through diet. I'm not picking on any one group.....there are many many ways to cut medical cost.......but this isn't a perfect world. Knowing that.......I, as a smoker, shouldn't be expected to pay for all the ills of it all!

Insurance fraud and medical malpractice are the number 1 and 2 reasons for rising insurance costs.....so don't lay that responsibility on me! I may be an addict.....but I've never lied about it when the insurance questionaire comes around......and so therefore I pay more for my personal insurance than non-smokers do! As a matter of fact......in addition to the sin tax imposed on me everytime I buy a pack of cigs (of which, who knows who benefits from it).......I also pay all the taxes expected of me whether they apply to my personal life or not!

So......why me? Why the smokers? And.....now that you have that money....and continue to get more and more from me.....what will you do when I quit?

(((((jenna)))))))......love you hun! We should have been on the debate team!

[PantyFanatic]

...MOST of the way. Your first major point is well taken and it would be acceptable IF that's what happened to it. IT DOESN'T!

Originally posted by jennaflower

..... 1) Education and prevention... to stop people (especially the young kids) from picking up that first cigarette.

2) The rising medical costs. Someone smokes based on their CHOICE to do so... and I see no reason why... as a tax payer.. I should in anyway be forced to assist in paying for their medical care. Medical care, that most often wouldn't be necessary had it not been for their choice. The cost of cancer and heart disease (both of which are highly attributed to smoking) is causing the cost of insurance.. and healthcare in general.. is going thru the roof...

Sorry .. I know it is addictive... and I have no doubt that it isn't an easy thing to live with... As your friend.. I would happily bite the bullet and shoulder the financial responsibility.. but as a tax payer.. I don't want to have to and without a choice.. [/B]
Your second point get more involved. I understand the feeling of having to pay for the poor choice of others. I think the same thing when FEMA has to assist in disasters for people that CHOOSE to live on KNOWN earthquake faults and in flood planes that are certain of destruction.

As for the cost of health care, I guess you can take sallies in the fact that we won’t be around using 20 to 30 years of the funds that the healthy 90 year old will receive. LOL

Just some more thoughts. ;)

[lakritze]

I'm with you Lixy.What fine upstanding do-gooder of a citizen dweeb deceided to call it a "SIN TAX" anyway?? Oh well in the mean time,this should give you a little smile. www.smokingparadise.com Now if yo'll excuse me,I've got a date with a Camel.

[LixyChick]

Slow Ride......You made it to the other side! I congratulate you and I envy you in one breath! Don't be too worried about the fucking tax......there are years ahead of us for the tobacco sin tax first! *kisses*

PF....I read and reread what you gave us.....and now I just wanna hug you! I just knew those bastards were up to no good with this money! It's saying...."Here! Smoke all you want so we can tax you a heap to build a building you can come to....but you can't smoke in"! OMG! We are asses! I'm more ashamed of being duped...than I am of being a smoker! TY for your hard work......and I am looking forward to your next installment! :D

silentsoul......I totally understood everything you said except the specs on the guns you have! LOL! Hey! I'm a girl! As to the use of pot as a medicine in contrast to non-homeopathic chemical meds....I hear you! It's been known for sometime that it's effects help many patients in many ways. Cancer patients who are on chemo have smoked it to be able to eat. It's a misunderstood medical wonder! No worries as to you "yabbering". It's why I started this thread in the first place! Not so silent after all...eh? ;) *hugs*


Thanks everybody! You guys are great!

[silentsoul]

you know, I never cease to be amazed by pixies. This place is terrific. In one place, people from all over the world can join together and express themselves freely. In the oldest of ancient rome, when all of the most famous paintings and sculptures were made, sex was simply a part of life, a big part actually. Basically, it was an all day everyday thing. Hang out by the pool, relaxing in the nude, seeing all the beautiful also naked people walking around, people would get horny. So they fucked, then and there like it was nothing. Of course being in a place where everyone is nude and possibily in the process of having sex, anybody would get horny. So basically, ancient rome was an orgy. How kick ass is that.Me personally, I would love for the world to become open enough to where anybody could have sex with any other consenting person any place any time. And as far as the whole "think of the children" line, it doesn't hurt them a bit if they don't see it as unordinary.

But obviously everyone already knows that we're all a bunch of nymphos but that we're open enough to express our true feelings about any subject, even the much debated medicinal marijuana is fantasitic.

Anyway, the wife just got home and all you tempting little sex kittens have made me horny so I'm gonna go try to sudece the wife. Wish me luck, maybe I'll even get some pics:D

[Belial]

Originally posted by LixyChick


Belial....LMFAO! It sounded more like a Dennis Leary rant......and just as funny! TY hun!



If I may be allowed to go off-topic for just one brief moment:

I believe Dennis Leary recorded a routine very similar to that one on his 1993 album No Cure For Cancer, however, it is (with some slight modification) ripped from Bill Hicks' work on his 1990 album Dangerous. Leary has curiously escaped public wrath for it, and other swipes from Hicks, though recently comedian and Fear Factor host Joe Rogan has called him on it.

..now, back to the topic! :)

[Catch22]

I am a nurse and we never abuse our bodies! *smirk*

[LixyChick]

Originally posted by LixyChick
Yes...I chose to smoke and so therefore I shouldn't expect others (especially non-smokers) to pay for it.
I said that ^^^.....last night....and I couldn't sleep for thinking about it. I told you earlier that I started smoking when I was 7y/o (technically I was 6....but didn't really inhale till I was 7).....and I kept thinking.....WHOAH! How did that happen? Did I really choose to smoke? I spose I did with a lot of peer pressure. But, knowing what I knew by the time I was 15 and fully addicted....would I choose to smoke then? I don't think I would! So, as a clarification....I do smoke, but I don't think you can say that at 7y/o....I chose to do it....and I especially don't choose to do it now. It chooses for me! I'd prefer to quit.....and if I ever can, I will!

OK...just wanted to say that aloud!

silentsoul......Oooooooo la la! *crosses fingers for your luck and therefore pics for us!* LOL!

Belial........I saw a roast for Dennis Leary once......and the "angry smoker's rant" he had done so many times.....was most often the initial topic of each persons roast! No one ever mentioned that he stole it though.....hmmmm.....well, I guess they wouldn't be THAT mean at a roast! LOL! TY for the info! :)

Catch22.......:D ;)

[Grumble]

Cant stay out of this one

I am a dedicated non smoker.

I agree with special smoking areas in public places. Nothing worse than having foul smoke force fed to you.

I agree with no smoking at work except in nominated breaks, the non smokers keep working whilst the smoker takes 5 mins off for a fag.

I agree with taxes on cigarettes as they help pay the enormous cost that the results of smoking puts on the community through the burden on the health system and this is an avoidable thing, you dont have to smoke.

That said, I do not believe that smokers are evil and I know that nicotine is the most addictive substance in our world.

I have a great deal of sympathy for those addicted. My mother died of lung cancer caused by her lifelong smoking habit/addiction.

Also I often saw the results of smoking whilst i was servicing oxygen concentrator machines going to so many homes to see people on oxygen because their lungs were so damaged by the results of smoking. It is not a pleasant sight to see these people in obvious distress, no quality of life and an inevitable shortened life span filled with pain.

I feel very compassionate for these people and think that it would be a good thing if the tobacco industry was phased out.

[thedog]

Hey Lixy ...

I don't believe anyone has to worry about RJ Reynolds going out of business anytime soon. With declining sales in the US, they have all targeted and marketed to people of the third world countries for increased sales. And unlike the US, where advertising is banned or strictly controlled, advertising in other countries proliferates on a massive scale.

Jenna & PF - you mentioned the collected taxes being used for health care and educational issues. That's exactly what the Tobacco Settlement was supposed to do. I say was and supposed to because here in New Hampshire, as in other states as well I suspect, that money has been greedily siphoned off for other purposes.

I tend to view it this way ... when the government figures out how to tax sunlight, there will be rapid advances in the use of solar power.

(Climbing off soapbox now....)

[CunningLinguist]

Whenever a politician says they willl eartmark the taxes taken from one group and use it for paprticular purpose they are lying. At leat that is the way in the U.S. becuase all taxes colected at every level goes into a general fund and legislators then decide how it gets spent. (See I knew government class was good for something.)

So really there is nothing to stop the taxes on your cigartttes from going to corporate welfare, funding the CIA's drug suggling operations, war in Iraq or a congessional pay raise. Althought you can be certain the money made from taxing cigarettes will never go to pay for healthcare.

Here in Texas the only reason why we got a lottery was because George W. Bush said it would go to pay for education. To this date not a dime had gone to the schools. Well that is unless someone won the lottery and donated lots f money to the local school or built a huge mansion so that the property taxes collected would go up.

[Cobalt]

Lixy,........ I couldn't agree with you more, But.............. Like has been said, WTF can we do about it. I wish we had the answers. And yes "I am a smoker and I am not ashamed of it". I would like to and know I need to quit for health and financial reasons, but easier said than done.


Maybe someday I and/or we will be able to kick the habbit. Then see what happens!!!!!!!!! Fuck the government, everyone should quit then see them scramble to find how to tax us on something else so they can still have there yearly raises and unearned high wages.

And why should they get a pension after only 4 years in office, I don't unless I work for over 20 years, and that is only if it is an option.

Done for now!!!! (Sits back and lights up a smoke to calm down.)

[paprclphd]

CunningLinguist - I agree with you on the Texas Lottery. Don't we sometimes have the most backwards government in Texas? Please don't put all the blame on Bush though - Perry isn't too much better!

One more thing on the smoking subject from me: Our insurance costs do not go up because of the smokers of the world. Insurance goes up because some people refuse to get a job and take care of themselves and so therefore the taxpayers of the world are going to continue to pay medicare and medicaid and everything other damn thing that the government can think of in order to make the citizens of the US that don't do a damn thing elegible for healthcare. When I started at my current job I did not have any healthcare for about a year. However - every paycheck i received had money taken out of it for things that I personally have nothing to do with such as medicare. Now, having health insurance I pay an unreasonable amount a month becuase of the people that won't get their own health insurance and pay for it themselves and instead decide to waltz into a hospital and demand treatment. That is where your cost of health insurance comes from, and for lack of a better phrase - its fucked up!

People have been mentioning pot smoking throughout this thread. My opinion? HELL YEAH!! MAKE IT LEAGAL!!!

<------- takes a hit and blows the smoke all over the place!!!

[CunningLinguist]

Paprclphd,

Well Bush was much better than the person before him, Ann Richards, who mistakenly thought she was governor of Lousiana and as such presided over one of the most crooked administrations ever seen.

I agree with you on the madicrae bit. I bust my ass at my job making minimum wage and still have to beg for money form my parents who I am still dependant on despite having just graduated form college. It breaks my heart to see at least 20 bucks form each paycheck go to somebody who doesn't have the drive to get off thier ass and actually work for a living. No, I amnot talking about wlefare mothers, but I am talking about fat cat CEO's who never worked a day in his life.

Take a look at who sits on the board of many major corporations. Most of them are board members of more than one corporation and even sit on the board with companies that are supposed to be in competition with each other. A few corporate leaders are elected officials or top people in government. Well if you can serve on the board for more than one corporation, then that proves board members don't do any real work.

And typically the people who sit at the helm of these larger companies were born into a position of power and prestiege.

I say we should start calling the president King George II (since he wasn't elected, but appoited), call the Supreme Court a Council of Elders, refer to the President's family as Dukes, Duchesses, Prinnes and Preincesses, refer to Senators as Lords and Ladys, and to Captains of industry as Barons and Baronesses.

Come on a titles of nobility are sorely needed in this country!

[Booger]

About 3 years ago I was looking for a job. I applied for one job thay asked if you were a smoker I didn't think much of it at the time. But 2 years later I was looking threw want adds and there was a help wanted add for the same place and I noticed they said non smokers only.

Now if the add had said no about anything else people would be up in arms about discrimination but some how it's ok if they say non smoker only.

[Sharni]

<=====Thinks better of adding her say.....tapes her mouth shut,....sits on hands...and backs away slowly on rolling chair ;)

[CunningLinguist]

Booger,

Was it a company, corporation, a non-profit orginization or government entity?

I do know that churches can and will fire people for having a lifstyle they do not agree with. (Read: A Church can fire gays, swingers, drunks, and smokers for no other reason than what they do in their spare time without impunity.)

[Mor Rioghan]

First off, SIN TAX can kiss my :moon:

I have been smoking since I was 13 years old...and my 30th b-day is only 8 months away. So, for the majority of my life I have induldged in the ONE vice I have truly ever had. (We aren't going to mention sex right now... :devil: )

I started smoking because of the friends I had at the time. (Yes, my parents smoked. BUT, they did their best to prevent me from becoming a smoker...including whipping my ass and taking my ciggs from me every chance they could.)

I continued smoking because it was the ONE thing that actually kept my nerves settled...and me from killing everyone around me. Also, since I had my ciggs, I didn't over-indulge in food whenever I was upset or so far down that nothing could pick me up. (Yeah, I used it as a crutch...but it DID prevent me from getting into heavy drugs or worse things.)

I have quit twice...because I was pregnant with each of my sons. I also tried to not start back up afterwards. Stress has been the main reason that I have started back each time.

I went from smoking indoors (before children) to smoking outdoors, in hopes that my children weren't hurt by my usage of tobacco. But, GUESS WHAT? My children still ended up with medical problems...and all of them had NOTHING to do with my habit.

Now, I smoke inside my home...because of the people that regulate the laws and everything in between. And as far as I know, they can't stop me from doing that...

I have to regulate where I eat out, where I drive, what I watch on tv/movies/dvds/vhs, etc. All because someone who doesn't know me or live my life feels that they know better than I do how to live my own life.

YEAH, I choose to continue to smoke...and fill my body with all the negativity from doing so. BUT IT IS MY BODY DAMMIT!

So, for me, I have to deal with paying anywhere from $1.20 to almost $5 (or more) per pack I smoke. And since we (hubby & I)both buy our ciggs in cartons, we spend between $12 and $50 per carton we buy. Which also means that we roughly spend between $96 and $400 a month to feed our habit.

Yes, I know that that is $$ that could be spent on other things...but when you get so sick from NOT smoking, you really don't have much other choice.

AND, as for the methods around for quitting, they are just as expensive, if not MORE. So, smokers have one of two choices...smoke and be thought of as disgusting and so forth...or we can "conform" and spend just as much trying to kick habits that are, for some, the only way to deal with normal pressures of life.

**********

NOW, as for the other topic that has been brought up...legalizing the usage of marijuana has been a debated topic since the 1960s. Until our government can figure out a money-making way to legalize the usage, it will continue to be deemed illegal for the majority of our populace.

And all the naysayers can gloat that they were right...that no matter what medicinal properties it has are irrelevant. And anyone who has experienced the medicinal properties (because of cancer, glaucoma, muscle spasms/tremors, etc.) will eventually get tired of the naysayers and continue their usuage -- often in fear of being caught and sentenced for using something that may very well be saving their lives.

Yet another situation that our government thinks they are handling so damn well...

**********

As for the thought that they may get the hair-brained idea of taxing sex...I'll still do that too.

WHAT I DO IN MY OWN HOME IS MY OWN DAMN BUSINESS! And if I choose to slowly kill myself...that is my choice.

All right, I have added my two cents...someone else want the soapbox??

[jseal]

Mor Rioghan,

Yes mam. Thank you.

The search for government revenue in fiscally tight times tempts legislators to raise revenue by imposing unusually high excise taxes on cigarettes, liquor, gambling, and, in Europe, on gasoline. This type of charge is often called a "sin tax", and appeals to voters who view it as a way of discouraging consumption of certain objectionable products. In one of her threads, Lilith referenced a German city that plans to tax commercial sexual intercourse, so I guess that services should be also included.

In economic terms, the sin tax is not different from any tax designed to discourage consumption. Every dollar taken away from people through this approach is one dollar less saved or spent on other pursuits.

If the government is seeking to make people pay for actions deemed socially costly or sinful, it makes the most sense for these people to be taxed directly for the right to sin. Yet there are very few examples of this binary model of the sin tax. Instead, the modern sin tax is usually triangular. Not only is the consumption itself discouraged by government policy, but all those engaged in feeding the desire to sin, and making the sin available, are also taxed.

This regressive tax is especially cruel towards the poor, who spend a disproportionate amount of their income on products deemed sinful under a consumption tax. It takes money from their pockets when they buy the goods for which they have a strong demand, and leaves less for them to spend on their rent, food, clothing, and the like. The supposed virtue of the consumption tax is that it hits every consumer of the good equally. Yet the poor are the ones that can least afford the tax, are the ones most in need of discretionary income, and are therefore the ones hit hardest. This is neither good statecraft nor good economic policy. It is also unjust.

The sin tax fails to consider the crucial distinction between vice and crime. Before we empower the government with what are, effectively, pastoral responsibilities, we ought to consider fundamental issues regarding the interplay between private morality and public policy.

The sin tax is one of the few taxes presumed to have an overt moral justification. I say "overt" because other taxes imply certain covert moral categories. For example, the US taxes the return on capital at a higher rate than income that flows from pure wages and salaries. This "capital gains tax" implies there is something less morally legitimate about making money through risk and investment than there is from taking home pre-set wages and salaries.

When the state treats a certain behavior as sinful and thus particularly taxable, it assumes certain moral categories. It says that the taxed behaviors are less morally justifiable than other forms of behaviors, and therefore more justifiably taxed. The moral reasoning behind such a tax is clearly evident. Punishing wrong doers is among the usual lists of powers appropriate to government. What is not obvious is why the central state puts itself in the business of determining the sinfulness of certain behavior given that the taxed sins are not directly invasive of other peoples' rights.

Compare smoking and drinking, for example, with crimes against person or property. While the state declares drinking and smoking to be sins vulnerable to added levels of taxation, it also admits that these behaviors are less objectionable than theft or murder. We don't, for example, have anything like a murder tax or a theft tax, although one could suggest that the cost of a good (successful) legal team represents a "tax" on ones behavior. When a citizen steals something from another person, he is not taxed; he is tried and convicted as a criminal. Neither are the sins being taxed considered violations of the civil code. Instead, the state simply taxes the behavior in an attempt to raise revenue and discourage the behavior.

Governments always act on moral premises of some sort. Punishing crimes against person and property are acts of moral sanction. But to entrust the state with sweeping social responsibilities is to forget the crucial distinction between society and state. Democratic government is limited government. It is limited in the claims it makes and in the power it seeks to exercise. Limited government means that a clear distinction is made between the state and the society. Other institutions - notably the family, the Church, educational, economic and cultural enterprises - are at least equally important actors in the society. They do not exist or act by sufferance of the state.

Do we want to charge politicians and bureaucrats with sanctioning sins in areas that are morally ambiguous? Or should this task be left to community, family, church, and tradition -- social institutions that are often more trustworthy in determining the limits of non-violent behavior?

A classic statement regarding non-violent forms of social behavior which are nonetheless frowned upon was made by John Stuart Mill:

"That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because in the opinion of others, to do so would be wise, or even right. These are good reasons for remonstrating with him, or reasoning with him or persuading him, or entreating him, but not for compelling him, or visiting him with any evil in case he do otherwise. To justify that, the conduct from which it is desired to deter him must be calculated to produce evil to someone else. The only part of the conduct of anyone, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others. In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute." 1859 (On Liberty, Chapter 1)

It is a mistake to entrust the modern state with the enforcement of certain moral codes of behavior that extend beyond obvious crimes against person and property. When government is allowed to go beyond these limits and enforce a wider array of moral issues, it will substitute its own form of morality for traditional morality. A government program like recycling, for example, could be deemed more morally worthy than traditional virtues like personal integrity. Obeying securities regulations could be seen as the very heart of virtue, whereas teaching children at home could be seen as a vice. The government's sense of morality, especially when it is influenced by excessive power, is often at war with traditional standards and common sense.

I forget where I read it, or who wrote it, but I remember reading a piece which described the state's temptation to enter private life on behalf of society. Basically, the author asked why limit the government's benevolent involvement to the protection of the individual's body only? Is not the harm a man can inflict on his mind and soul even more disastrous than any bodily evil? Why not prevent him from reading bad books and seeing bad plays, from looking at bad paintings and statues and from hearing bad music? The harm done by bad ideologies, surely, is much more grievous, both for the individual and for the whole society, than that done by drugs.

OK, I overstate my case, but indulge my poetic license for effect.

[Booger]

CunningLinguist it was a corporation

[CunningLinguist]

Booger,

Well I also remeber that this week Iapplied to work at a corporation and I signed a release allowing this company to nterview friends, relatives, co-workers and neighbors to discenr my character.

Gee I hope Succubus Kitty doesn't say anyhting about me being a sex freak and participating in an orgy when I was in college.

[silentsoul]

Originally posted by Mor Rioghan
NOW, as for the other topic that has been brought up...legalizing the usage of marijuana has been a debated topic since the 1960s. Until our government can figure out a money-making way to legalize the usage, it will continue to be deemed illegal for the majority of our populace.

And all the naysayers can gloat that they were right...that no matter what medicinal properties it has are irrelevant. And anyone who has experienced the medicinal properties (because of cancer, glaucoma, muscle spasms/tremors, etc.) will eventually get tired of the naysayers and continue their usuage -- often in fear of being caught and sentenced for using something that may very well be saving their lives.

Yet another situation that our government thinks they are handling so damn well...

**********

The fact that many people do not realize is that it would be nearly impossible to tax marijuana. Marijuana is a weed and weeds will grow in spite of you. I have actually seen where someone has thrown a seed out their window and within a couple of months, they had a plant growing in their front yard and didn't even know it.

Whether grown outdoors or indoors, marijuana is here to stay. The only possible way that the government would be able to tax marijuana if they treated it the way they treat alcohol, legal to buy, illegal to make. For someone who uses marijuana all day everyday, that is simply not an option.

[LixyChick]

OK.....well....here's a question that just popped into my head while reading all the great reply's above.......

Just exactly wtf are these people who impose these taxes and why didn't I know about their intentions during the obnoxious, muckraking phase of their campaigns? This is the kinda shit I want to know about during a politician's campaign....along with their platform on abortion....etc.! I don't give a shit who they slept with to get where they are today.....I don't give a shit if they smoked pot once in 1969 (and didn't even inhale...??!!)......and all that other crap we find out while reading and watching campaigns! I want to know what they think about smoking and sin tax! I want them to come clean, come out of the shadows and tell me this............when they get their raises that go along with the cost of living (yeah....right!)....does it more than doubley cover the sin taxes imposed during the past fiscal year? Bet it does, and then some......so even if they are smokers themselves.....they don't give a fuck if I pay out the wazzoo.....because their raises make it so that they don't even feel the crunch!

Geezzzzzz.........the things I think of at this time of night!

[Lilith]

This may be a site (http://www.smokersclub.com/newsltr.htm) of interest to all of you smokers who are looking for political information.

[LixyChick]

Oh! TY Lil! Cool site!

[Tess]

This ex-tobacco farmer in drag weighs in with:

It's a free country, but My God, I wish I could quit!

[fenderchick]

It is very hard to quit I started when I was 14. I am 31 and have been quit for close to two years because of a heart problem (tho I did quit for 3 years in the past for the same issue at hand). I do not have broncidus every year now and overall feel better but I have not seen where it has helped the heart rythem. I can still say that I do have the desire to smoke one but not as often anymore. I am not sure that you ever loose that desire. I am one of the lucky ones becase I have not gained weight from quiting. I do find that I have a hard time being around smokers not from wanting one but because of the smell. I do feel for anyone who wants or has to quit because it is very hard habit to break. Good luck to all the one who are trying to quit!

[BlueSwede]

I know I am highly outnumbered here, but I have to agree 100% w/Grumble.

I try my best to live in areas in which smoking is banned in public places, certainly in areas that don't allow smoking in restaurants, for example. My daughter is actually allergic to tobacco plus has asthma, and we've had to leave restaurants that had smoking sections because of her reaction to the second-hand smoke at those places. Smoke is like pee in the pool; it doesn't stay in one spot.

I agree that there are many areas in which high taxes or taxes period could be applied and are not, but just because they are not doesn't mean that cigarettes shouldn't be taxed.

Obviously, I'm a nonsmoker.