::Educational Spanking::

[Lilith]

Just curious if the schools where you live allow corporal punishment and if so who is permitted to carry out said discipline?

[Sharni]

Good Gawd no.....definate hands off policy here!!

[Oldfart]

No, no damn fun any more.

[Scarlett]

My daughter's school has the policy that if it comes down to spanking, they call the parents.
At the public schools here, the parent signs whether to have spankings or not.

[m45]

discipline in the schools went away a long time ago.
That is a No No here...
Should be a YES everywhere.

[Scarlett]

I tend to disagree. If my child has done something so bad to deserve a whipping, I will be the one to dole it out. I don't want anyone else whipping my child.

[gekkogecko]

Public schools in Maryland have a policy (state-enforced) that spanking is limited to consenting adults. Which is the way it should be.

[Christine]

All corporal punishment is banned here in Norway, be it in the schools or in the privacy of your home.

[Sharni]

I agree with bringing corporal punishment back into schools!!

And i dont mean a whipping....a good smack on the ass is a damn good deterrent....I know it worked for me when I was at school

[BlondeCurlGirl]

Madison is such a PC (politically-correct) city, so of course spankings are a definite No-No in the schools...

[PantyFanatic]

The barbaric practice of a swat on the ass of an unruly kid has been outlawed here for about 20 years. We are very progressive in this big city.

It has been replaced with closed circuit surveillance cameras and installation of 911 phones in every room and hallway. Along with metal detectors at all the locked entrances and armed police patrols. We also have socially advanced to not hurting any ones self-esteem by holding them back and high school graduates that can’t read their diploma and 46% of them not being able to located the United States on a blank world map.

We’ve also managed to attain a much lower grade of teacher and increased the rolls of private and home schooling.









I wonder what the price of a paddle was.:rolleyes:

[Crichton]

I believe, in my state corporal punishment is legal, but all district policies forbid it. As a former teacher, I never saw any benefit in striking a child. If you would like discipline in the schools, expel students who misbehave, and only allow them to return for a second chance with the parent paying tuition for one year. Second offense, make them find a private school, if they can.

Spanking should be reserved for adults, they'll appreciate it!

[Sharni]

Sorry but expulsion is not the answer.....if schools expelled children for misbehavior...there'd be no kids attending at all...

There'd be even more uneducated kids on the streets trying to survive...

As for making parents pay....all your teaching the kids is...someone else has to bail me out...someone else has to pay!!...not for them to accept the consequences of their actions

Private school...some parents are battling to pay school fees now...what hope have they got of getting a troubled kid into a private school??

Like i said...I'd give my permission for a smack on the ass(not a flogging by any means) of my kid anyday over the option of a life on the streets, drugs or god only knows what other horror

**NOTE: Everthing in this post is based on my beliefs....i'm not condemning yours just debating the other side :):)

[PantyFanatic]

As a former teacher, I never saw any benefit in striking a child.
How long did you teach?

Why are you not teaching now?

[skipthisone]

Completely outlawed here in schools and public.

[Lilith]

My county is a non spanker but the one next door permits. It permits any one to do it as well, aides, lunch ladies, principals, teachers, bus drivers.

As a teacher I have never, nor will I ever use it. Frankly in this letigious society I do not think there is any amount of teaching insurance that can protect teachers adequately and I will leave the parenting to the parents.


I respect everyone's views on this subject. I think it is very interesting how not just different countries but even different areas within a nation have passed very different laws governing corporal punishment. It is one of those topics that their is clearly no true consensus.

[PantyFanatic]

...I will leave the parenting to the parents...
That would be nice too.

[Sharni]

The problem is the parents aren't allowed to parent either....

Although you may smack your child here in Oz (well in my state anyway)...as long as its below the shoulders...and as long as you are not using excessive force..

But still i get looks down the street from do gooders that have seen me smack my kids butt....never mind the fact that i'd told him many times to cut it out and he didnt...

And if ya dont do anything ya get labled a bad mum cause your child is running amok

Ya damned if ya do and ya Damned if ya dont!!!

[Midnight Kiss]

I am a teacher as well, and feel that if the student knows they can be spanked in school if being ugly then they are less likely to act out. The kids coming to school with the "note" and know what it says are usually the ones that are so disruptive in the class that there is no time to teach everyone else. It is allowed in my school and my state, but it is not something I use, but have found that if they think you will then they stop acting ugly.

[dicksbro]

PF, you're not alone. I think the "progressive" view of your community is about the same here. And we wonder what's happening in this world. :(

[Grumble]

definatly outlawed in Tasmania. I grew up when it was allowed and got the occassional taste of the cane.

It was a good deterrent and i think that for exceptional cases it should be permitted under strict guidelines.

When I was Chairperson of the High School council, discipline policy was always under review. There was a very cpmprehensive policy that included exclusion from class (under supervision 1 - 1 with a teacher) internal detention and suspension. In rare cases expulsion.

[Casperr]

Originally posted by pantyfanatic
and 46% of them not being able to located the United States on a blank world map.

PF, can YOU find the USA on a blank world map??


It's BLANK, duh! The USA ain't there, nothing is!


:P

CasperTG

[Crichton]

Panty Fanatic,

2 years as a substitute, 6.5 years as a classroom teacher. I was transferred from a decent school to a school in which High School students had the vocabulary and reading ability of elementary school kids (I had to explain the meaning of the word "grasp" and about 20 other basic words each time I gave a reading assignment) I walked away at Christmas from a career I had decided on and focused all my eforts to achieve since I was 14, so I gave 18 years of my life to getting to that point. Now some made for TV movie would tell you that I threw out the curriculum and taught all those students to read, and they won a National Reading competition and we would all swoon at the heart-warming joy. But the fact is, if you don't learn to read by HS it's a.) because you made a concerted effort not to b.) HS teachers are not trained to teach "reading" it's a very specific instructional area that is taught, not surprisingly at early elementary.

[Crichton]

Sharniqua,

I understand your point, and as a child who grew up on ADC/Welfare, I know that my Mom would never have been able to pay tuition, but I also recognized school was an opportunity for me. We would not need to expel many students, because kids learn very quickly when you're serious, and have real consequences. The problem is there is no consequence for misbehavior and the lack of them leads to students who would behave, seeing "everyone else" getting away with it" so why should they behave? Again, the single greatest fallacy we have created is the idea of child autonomy from the earliest ages. Children need structure, they need boundaries and they will test them, unfortunately we will not in any way enforce those boundaries. Also, about the smacking, it won't do any good. I got smacked around by my "peers" for being poor and small, and it never made me respect them or change my behavior, why would it work for schools?

[Irish]

If you have brought your kids up with the correct values,they will
know how to behave in school!My favorite Aunt(now deceased)
was a HS teacher,so I know a little about it.I beleive in leaving parenting to the parents.There are good&bad teachers,and I don't want them to give THEIR idea of behavior to my kids or
grandkids.As said,making parents pay,monetarily,is just reinforcing,the idea,of NOT being responsible,for your own actions!My kids were always tought what was right&wrong,and to help kids who were being picked on!As far as I'm concerned,
too many,people don't GET involved.I had a teacher,in High School,that singled a kid out,and picked on him,because he was
homosexual.While I'm strictly hetrosexual,it wasn't right! Irish
P.S.I, also,think that lowering passing grades,so that kids can
pass,is totally rediculous!

[Crichton]

Irish,

It's all fine and dandy to bring up your kids with the right values, but then they get into school with all the kids who weren't brought up with those values. Don't worry about the teacher's ideas of behavior, peers are far more influential.
My wife is also a "recovering teacher " (her term) as are about 10 of our friends (pause to think about that for a minute, 10 people in my circle between the ages of 25-35 went to all the trouble of becoming teachers, only to walk away from the thing they wanted most, what hope does that give you for the future?) anyway, she and I were discussing how every parent when confronted with undeniable evidence of their child's misbehavior always attributed it to "falling in with a bad crowd" How nice that it was never their child's responsibility, and as a result certainly not a reflection on parneting.

[Irish]

Crichton---Perhaps,my kids were raised with a different set of values.I understand what you are saying,but I have been riding&
in the motorcycle lifestyle,for over 43 years.My kids grew up,
around people that society said were not nice people.BULLSHIT.
While I admit that they were affected,somewhat,by peer pressure,they also knew that they had parents,that wouldn't
stand up for them,just because they were their kids.My kids had
the same outlook on life that my father gave to me.He said:"Just
don't lie to me.If you did something,you did it.I'll back you 100%,
as long as you're telling me the truth!I just don't want to back
you,and then find out that you lied to me.I'll really be an asshole
then."By the way,my father was an ex Conn. State Cop&an aux.
town cop! Irish

[Crichton]

Oh, I agree whole-heartedly that kids can make the right choices based on strong parenting, and even more importantly based on a strong internal sense of right and wrong, the problem is that parents don't establish those strong values and then when the kids get to school they are not given any consequences for misbehavior either. We just found it amusing that no parent ever identified their chid as being the cause of their own misbehavior. When you or I misbehaved as children we were held accountable and punished (not beaten), once at school once at home, now not only is there no consequence at home, a parent will deflect blame on to anyone else (but the child or themself) this teaches kids to act in all the worst ways as long as it gratifies them, and these are the kids your well parented kids must co-exist and later compete with. Your kid takes the test and gets a B through effort, their kid cheats, gets caught but because of our weak system, gets a do over and gets a B. Some justice. And belief in the argument that cheaters never win ignores our recent political history.

[Crichton]

An interesting side note, bringing this back to a more "sex talk" conversation, recently a HS counselor posed nude for an adult magazine, and the whole community was upseet and thought she should lose her job (she quit to avoid the hassle) and the main reason given by parents and administrators was that the "children" would inevitably see the magazine and so she should be punished. Last time I checked posing nude was legal, minors getting access to porn was illegal for a. the minor b. the adult providing them with it, so who should be punished?

[Irish]

I remember,that case,from the news!I am constantly,telling
my daughters,that they don't understand little boys!I just
watched"8 Mile" on PPV.Whenever,I get a PPV,I also videotape
it.I know that my oldest grandson(11)had said that he wanted
to see it.He likes M&M.She thought that he was too young to see it.It's her kid.Women don't understand little boys.By the time,that
my mother(religous Catholic)told me about the birds&bees,I had
already had sex.I'm 59 now,things are completely different! Irish
P.S.My daughters have 3 sons&1daughter.

[lizH]

Of course we should allow spanking in the public schools! Where else can bad little boys learn the joys of being spanked by an older woman? How are these little boys going to grow up into men who make good subs? :)

Seriously, I can sort of see both sides of the issue. You don't want a teacher, principal, lunch lady, aide, etc. spanking any child they want to on a whim. You need to keep it in control; there have to be some limits on the amount and type of corporal punshiment.

When I was a child, effectively there weren't any, especially on parents. The schools didn't like giving out corporal punishment, so they would call the parents with any infraction. In my case, that was not a really good idea, as I've had all of my fingers broken, most of them at least twice, usually in a VERY DELIBERATE move as an act of punishment, broken ribs, a couple of fractured skulls... This was all effectively legal, as I was never taken to a doctor or hospital to have the bones set; my mother did a pretty good job. The neighbors called CPS once, and they checked to see how many bedrooms were in the house, and determined from that that no abuse was going on! Never mind that I had the only bedroom that had a door that would close!

We can't just let children do what they want. There must be some limits placed in their lives. They willl test those limits. They need to be told when they've reached one, and if they want to go further, a swat will get the child's attention. In the case of school personel, put it in some very close guidelines and what the causes of it are to be. Also, the administration of the punishment would have to be well defined: No hits above the shoulders, no hitting below the knees, no hitting genitalia, no blows to organs (no kidney blows, stomach punches, etc), no hitting physically handicapped children. All blows to be done with an open hand. (Let's not have the janitor beating the kids with his fists.) All punishment done with the child fully clothed. At least 2 adults must be present for each instance of corporal punishment.

[LixyChick]

I've no children but I am aware of the policies of local school systems and there is no spanking allowed in any of the immediate local schools.

And too......as far as I remember (not that I ever needed it *dons my silver painted "halo" hanger*) they outlawed spanking in the school system I grew up in when I was about 7 y/o.

Nowadays though........a spanking ain't gonna cut it for all the kids (of any age) who have NO respect for any authority what-so-ever! Respect is becoming a lost commodity to some school age kids. The "I know everything and you can't tell me what to do" attitude has become much more prevailing........and the ability to disipline your very own child has become a scary egg shell walk. Children now think any spanking is considered child abuse and I've heard of cases where the kids contact authorities or threaten contacting them if they get a spanking.

I abhor child abuse.............but I am none the worse for the wear of some of the spankings I got when I was young and "bad". As a matter of fact.......I might be a better person BECAUSE of them! Don't get me wrong......my dad was an asshole.......but I am living proof that no matter the horrible circumstances one grows up in......you make your own choices and you cannot hold others responsible for your actions (say.....13 or older.......younger children are a possible exception). When you become of an age when there is no doubt of right and wrong.....and you continually choose the wrong path and act out in a socially unacceptable way........it is you and you alone who is at fault! The consequences should fit the "crime". I don't know that spankings are a suitable consequence.......but children being as materialistic as they seem in this day and age.......I'd say, take something they hold dear away from them till they realize and prove and acknowledge that they have wronged and feel remorse and have changed their ways! And.............don't trust them any further than you can thow them......because they might say one thing but their actions might say another. Personally.......I think this new generation has to learn to earn/revive our (elders in authority) respect again. In years to come........if things don't change........we are going to be in deep trouble.

[campingboy]

If a teacher were to hit a student, what ever grade, the teacher would be fired, and charged with physical assault. If a parent was seen spanking there child in public, more then likely a call would be made to Child and Family Service. Spanking is no longer excepted here. Who decides what appropriate is? The angry adult? How hard? When does it become abuse?

As a former social worker, threats of spanking and spanking for discipline tend not to work. Appropriate punishment for the crime takes more work then a quick spank, but tends to have more of a lasting effect. I personally feel that there are always an option to spanking.

[Irish]

campingboy---I beg to differ with you.I don't think that teachers
should spank kids but I beleive that parents should.I don't mean
BEAT, but spank.My parents did & I deserved it.It didn't make me
a phsical freak& tought me that there were consequences for
my actions.My kids give their kids,"Time-Outs"instead of a spanking&from what my wife & I see,it does no good whatsoever
With all of the things that parents give kids now,they would,
probably,love to be sent to their room.That way,they could watch
TV,listen to the sterio,play video games,look at porn sites on the
computer,etc.Everyone differs,but that's my way of thinking.My
daughters are in their 30s now.They each have two children&I
am still,very close with them! Irish
P.S.My $.02.

[campingboy]

I understand what you are saying Irish. I think I was hit maybe twice in all my life. The problem is how do you define in law what is Ok and what is not. 5 spanks is ok, but 6 is abuse? Spanking through the cloths is fine, bare bum is not. The law need to be able to define limits. There can not be grey areas. Thus I still think I have to support the 'No Spanking' camp.

[campingboy]

When I was in social work I worked with girls that were either sexually or physically abused. The facility was a lock-up so that we could monitor them. They had done nothing against the law. They were just in so much internal pain that they were always hurting themselves. By locking them up we could control who and what they had access to. Some girls were with us for over two years.

I'm not a parent, so it is easy for me to say 'spanking is not the best option'. Many people can set limits for what is appropriate and what is not. But not everyone can do that. It is for those that can not set the limits that I support the law of no spanking.

[BamaKyttn]

Okay now coming as a preschool teacher, as well as a school-age activities counselor (under 13) I do believe there are many children that would benefit from a beating with a buggy whip. (that was a quote) but you can only say "Johnny it is disrespectful to tell your teacher that you wish she 'would get hit by a truck until she was dead all over the road and never come back' just because she asked you to wash up for lunch." That was a three year old..... what a concept. or the ten year old (who just happens to be the Directors' son) whose mother called him to her just to ask him to be quieter, she chased him around the room four times with him yelling "you're stupid, you're slow and fat and old...etc" back at her then he sprinted down the hall and locked her out of her office. The same child changes the rules when it suits him and complains that no one is playing by the rules when he loses. He mocks his teachers, makes threats of physical violence against other students and teachers, and mom and dad excuse it all because he "has ADD and allergies". This is not a school for troubled children it's not a state school. It is a Montessori preschool and learning center and unfortunately those aren't the worst children.
Is spanking legal here? no. Should it be? Probably not. Are the parents doing their jobs? For the most part, no. They want to pay someone else to raise their child but take away the right to do more than time out. Sitting in the corner is illegal as well unless specified by the parent.

I'm not a parent and I never hope to be one. The last thing I want is a rugrat of my own that I have to worry about.

Kyttn

[Crichton]

Bamakyttn,

Preach on sister! I don't think the spankings would help, but I do recognize all the behaviors you described. Just in yesterday's paper, in Newburgh, New York a mother and two sons were charged with beating a teacher, a woman, with a chair and a desk. She was choked, punched and then beaten with furniture by a 34 year old mother and her 17 and 12 year old sons, for having the 12 year old suspended for spitting in her face and pushing her. This beating occurred in front of the 11 year old son of the victim. MyI am so upset about this that I can hardly stand it. Obviously a spanking would not work, even my suggestion, earlier on the board of expulsion/suspension did not work, what can you do as a teacher when parents are willing to come into the school and beat you?

[Lilith]

Childcare/Preschool teacher..........instant birth control! ((hugs)) Kyttn

[BamaKyttn]

I think fear of spawning helped me become the lesbian I am today..... if only my straight-laced very christian, homophobic boss knew that not only had she hired a former drug-user, but a pagan lesbian to boot..... hehehehe

[Prophet Reality]

I totally agree. If the system was not so scared and paranoid, we wouldn't have the Columbine and similar tragedies of the day and age. I would have never thought of bringing a guy or bombs to school. I did always carry a knife, but I was in one of the worst schools of my town. But did I ever threaten anyone with it.... HELL NO!!!! Some kind of punishment needs to be returned to the schools, and parents need to get there balls back and stand up against their kids and the system.

[Sharni]

parents need to get there balls back and stand up against their kids and the system.
The problem is if ya do....ya end up in the court system or prison

The thing that really pisses me off...is the do-gooders that say that you can't discipline your kids (timeout is the main option left to us now :rolleyes: ) haven't even got bloody kids.....they have absolutely no clue as to what parents have to deal with!! And that they are making it bloody harder to do parenting

In my day as a kid....most families had at least one parent home all the time......now days both parents usually have to work to provide enough money to survive...leaving the kids either at home alone or in daycare....

Kids of today see very little of their parents....and its a sad thing!

And i don't believe lumping the blame back on the parents is fair either.....its a society problem!!