CNN Poll: What is your opinion of Saddam's Iraq?

[Tess]

I was doing like many of my fellow Americans were doing this evening. I'm trying to carry on with my life, but I'm staying tuned to CNN to keep an eye on what's going on.

There was on particular segment which focused on a just released poll in several other countries asking if their view of the U.S. was favorable.

Most of the view of the U.S. had slipped from the high to mid range to 25% and lower. Well, ain't that something!

I'm not surprised by it, but I wonder what the opinion of Saddam's Iraq is?

Mind you, this is not a scientific poll, but I am curious what your opinion is?

[jseal]

H@rd Rock, Just a suggestion, while CNN is pretty good by American standards, you might like what you see at the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi.html They are a sound news organization, and you can get a non-American point of view in English. Just a thought.

[jay_ba]

The BBC is, by far, the best news organization. It never mattered where I travelled, I could always get BBC at the hotels. Even in Kazakhstan you can get BBC. They are pretty "global" in their thinking and coverage.

After a while that tune gets stuck in your head. I can't remember where I was, but once on the station they were talking about how they were selling a CD of the music from the news show.

[PantyFanatic]

"CBC" are some other inituals you may want to know of.;)

[south]

If this so called war screws up the coverage of the NCAA tournament.... I think it is wrong.
If the so called "fighting" stops before the sweet 16 It will be terrific....I just want to enjoy my FreedomFries and FreedomToast in Peace and quite before the next Terrorist urban renewal project in lower Manhattan.

Really How many of the Iraqi Civilians do we really need to kill??As usual it is a bad situation that should just be contained by the UN joint forces not us here in the US dictating our brand of democracy to the unwilling masses.
I personally feel Sadam is evil, but is our answer any better?
What does Bush and the US intelligence know that they haven't told us to make them so gung-ho on this forced democratization of Iraq? What are the concrete objectives of this campaign? And how long will we have to deal with the aftermath of our actions be they right or wrong?

[gfgfgf]

CNN is nothing but propaganda ladden shi ....... er

[Irish]

All that I can say is that Saddam,personally,compared himself to
Hitler& said that Hitler is his idol! Irish

[LixyChick]

Originally posted by south
I personally feel Sadam is evil, but is our answer any better?
What does Bush and the US intelligence know that they haven't told us to make them so gung-ho on this forced democratization of Iraq? What are the concrete objectives of this campaign? And how long will we have to deal with the aftermath of our actions be they right or wrong?


Our answer..........after asking the question for X amount of years, is better (to me) than waiting to see how far he will go!!!!!!!

If the Bush administration told "us" everything they knew.........what makes you think that "he" (Saddam) wouldn't find out?

Forced democratization????? Maybe.......just maybe........Saddam never let his people know they had a right to an opinion!!!!! Democracy=Freedom...............If being free is bad......I don't wanna be good!

The aftermath? It might benefit "us" (you included) when we finally rid the world of another tyrant......(lest we forget Hitler)! And I am willing to deal with that aftermath instead of the alternative...........for as long as it takes to help a helpless country in the shadow of a maniac!

*SPECIAL NOTE* This is in no way a personal attack! I have taken some of your opinions (south) and given my personal views to them (major disclaimer)!

[dm383]

Well, I voted for the Hitler/Saddam option, but that only applies to the knob-heads in charge (it isn't JUST Saddam, y'know!!)

The area I work in (Glasgow) Scotland has a very large number of Asylum seekers, who are fleeing from almost unimaginable violence & brutality in their homelands; as a Community based Mental Health nurse, I see a tiny fraction of these people, a large percentage of whom are Iraqui refugees from the time of Desert Storm..... that was 12 (yeh - TWELVE - count 'em folks!!) ago!!

These are just regular folks, who through no real fault of their own, have suffered horrific tortures at the hands of Saddam's henchmen.. and in one case, it is a TORTURER who is seekng Asylum!! THAT'S how bad it is in Iraq, when even the perpetrators of such horrors are running away!!

We have to speak to 99% of these people through interpreters, which isn't easy - but, even so, we can still appreciate just how vile it is to live as an "ordinary" Joe Q Public in Iraq;- you CANNOT voice any opinion other than the official "Party line", otherwise you just "disappear" one day .... some of the people I've met have spent months in jail, being systematically tortured, raped, sodomised (with various devices)... the list goes on.
Eventually they succumb to whatever decrees their captors state; and if they do it well enough, they are (soemtimes!) let go. That's when they manage to escape from their homeland, very often leaving members of their family behind.

This is by no means limited to Iraquis... we see Kosovans, Kurds (from Iraq AND Turkey) Croatians, Indonesians, Sri Lankans... again, the list is almost endless!

I guess what I'm trying to impart to you all is - most Iraquis are NOT the "bad guys" ..... they're just ordinary people, trying to stay alive and as safe as they can, in circumstances most of us can't even imagine.

So, yeah, villify Saddam and all his cronies... but remember the ordinary guys in the street, who clap & cheer (and, yes, fight the U.S./U.K. forces) because NOT TO is to invite a horrible death!! Then, ask yourself.... could YOU say no??

Thanks for putting up with me... I'll go and lie down now!

DM

[Tess]

Thank you, dm383, for enlightening us, and showing the individual plight of those under Saddam's regime.

Saddam is a bad, bad man, and there are no positives to his continued rule of Iraq. He has shown repeatedly a maniacal stance toward humankind, and it is a shame that the only way he would step down is to be forced to do so through brutal force.

I hope that this war is over soon. It is unfortunate that the cost will be the lives of many good people on both sides. It is imperative to remove Saddam as the ruler of Iraq and stop his escalating evil.

[Irish]

dm383---I know what you mean.I wish that people could see the
TV show that I saw the other night!It was about one of Saddams
sons.Some of his atrocities,almost make Saddam,look like an angel!It makes you wonder how someone could enjoy,treating
another living thing,that badly.For example,he ONLY enjoys himself,
if he sees blood.Therefore,he only enjoys raping PREGNANT women!He also had something to do with the Olimpics.He would
have atheletes,jump into a vat of sewage,if they had an open
sore.He then enjoyed the sore getting infected. Irish

[Deno]

Irish- do you know the name of the show or what time and channel it aired on, I would like to see that show.

Back on topic. I know Saddam's Iraq is very low on the 'places to visit' list for me. However, if it is so bad, why are there so many people there serving Saddam? It's not the nice weather making people stay.... what keeps the people serving him? If it is so terrible it seems like the people would resist, not hold him high as a leader.

[Irish]

Deno---I think that it was either the Discover or History channel
The Iraqui(sp?)people back Saddam because they or their
family,are threatened with torture if they don't.They interviewed
a previous Iraq citizen on the radio recently,who had been in this
country for years.He said that when he spoke out before,he got
a phone call,threatening the relatives,that still live there.People
are afraid to speak out,because of possible reprisals! Irish
P.S.I saw the show REAL late at night!Once,when a network cancelled one of my favorite shows,I found the network,on the
web-search.They will awnser,how you can see it!

[Tess]

I think the following article from UPI will shed some light on this discussion. Note in particular the paragraph about the U.S. protesters that have fled Baghdad.

******************************************

AMMAN, Jordan, March 21 (UPI) -- An unintended coalition of U.S. air power and Baghdad taxi drivers kept a potential flood of Iraqi refugees away from the Jordanian border Friday. The U.N. refugee agency and the Jordanian government were expecting a quarter of million people to stream across the border. Jordan is already home for 400,000 Iraqi refugees from the first Gulf War.

U.S. fighter bombers took out the only gas station between Baghdad and the border, a distance of 600 kilometers. The one-camel village of Ramadi was also the only phone booth on the desert road and a Jordanian was killed by the explosion of the gas station while making a call to his parents in Amman to let them know he was on his way home.

At the same time, the few taxi drivers in Baghdad willing to run the risk of making it to the Jordanian border are charging $1,500 per passenger. Very few Iraqis can afford the fare. As a result, only some 300 TCNs (Third Country Nationals) reached the border post since the bombing started. They were mostly Sudanese and Egyptians. There were no Iraqis among them. They had to hump their luggage 1.8 miles across no-man's-land on foot to Al Karama, the first Jordanian outpost. From there, they were bused to the tent city at the Ruwaished refugee camp, 36 miles inside Jordan.

The Sudanese and Egyptian governments agreed to pay for Jordanian Airlines charters to fly their nationals home.

A group of American anti-war demonstrators who came to Iraq with Japanese human shield volunteers made it across the border today with 14 hours of uncensored video, all shot without Iraqi government minders present. Kenneth Joseph, a young American pastor with the Assyrian Church of the East, told UPI the trip "had shocked me back to reality." Some of the Iraqis he interviewed on camera "told me they would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They were willing to see their homes demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's bloody tyranny. They convinced me that Saddam was a monster the likes of which the world had not seen since Stalin and Hitler. He and his sons are sick sadists. Their tales of slow torture and killing made me ill, such as people put in a huge shredder for plastic products, feet first so they could hear their screams as bodies got chewed up from foot to head."

Iran informed the UN refugee agency Friday that it now has 3,000 Iraqi refugees. Syria said its numbers were "insignificant." The picture could change for the worse as the United States steps up the bombing of Baghdad with a "shock and awe" campaign designed to stun and collapse what's left of the regime. Acute food shortages are expected before U.S. troops liberate Baghdad. U.N. officials in the Iraqi capital radioed today that some 500 disadvantaged children were suffering from malnutrition and they were rounding whatever supplies they could find.

Prior to the war, some 700 tanker trucks shuttled daily between both countries. Jordan consumes 12,000 tons of oil a day. All of it comes from Iraq at discounted prices under the U.N. oil-for-food program. Some 2,600 and 1,500 Iraqi tankers have been involved in the overland oil traffic. Movement was down to 140 tankers the day before the bombing started. It stopped abruptly two days ago.

Jordan had made plans for a quick switch to tankers anchored off Aqaba. Qatar had pledged to replace whatever shortfall Jordan experienced.

Jordanians see a good omen in the daily arrival of almost 1,000 white storks. They alight near the Safeway on one of Amman's seven hills, a pit stop on their way from Africa to their east European breeding grounds. About 100,000 storks are expected at the Safeway for the next month, numbers not seen in 10 years, and a sign of ample rain and a good harvest.

The official and private views of some ranking Jordanian officials appear to be diametrically opposed. Officially, they condemn the war and say they are "deeply troubled" about the repercussions of the war on the region, and describe the situation as "critical."

Privately, and not for attribution, they say the United States is developing a new opportunity for the Middle East. Said one former prime minister, "If the U.S. can get a new Iraq to recognize Israel as a quid pro quo for a final Palestinian settlement, others will fall into place -- Syria, Saudi Arabia, and the other Gulf states. Iran would then have to pull back its military support for Hezbollah."

Another prominent Jordanian voice said that while Iraq has created a rift between America and its allies, and in Europe itself, the Palestine question -- provided President Bush is serious about a settlement roadmap, without either side allowed to nickel and dime it to oblivion -- could be a reconciling factor. Which all sides now need." The official consensus is that the United States can win wars on its own. But it cannot win the peace. A former foreign minister said, "I can only hope that the $10 billion the U.S. now plans to provide Israel will have a geopolitical price tag."

[jseal]

Deno,

The question of “why are so many people there serving Saddam“ is ultimately difficult to answer to people who have no children, and is obvious to those who do. Why did people help the rulers of the Soviet Union? Why do people help the rulers of the Communist China? Why did people help the rulers of the Third Reich? Why did people help Idi Amin?

People aid and abet evil because they had and have to get by.

If you have a wife and children, it is much, much easier to hold one’s tongue than if you don’t. You drag ‘em out of bed in the morning, wash and feed ‘em, take them to and from school, talk about their day, wrassle and hug ‘em in the evening, feed ‘em again, and then tuck ‘em into bed at night.

One well placed bullet will steal their and your future forever. You can never get ‘em back. Ever.

The bad guys have the guns. You don’t. They often have the food. You don’t. What would you do? I know what I’d do; I’d toe the line.

Do you believe that the average Iraqi holds Saddam Hussein high as a leader. Have you ever spoken to an average Iraqi? They speak Arabic, you know. What you have heard is that 100% of the people who voted in Iraq’s last election voted for Saddam Hussein? Does that seem reasonable to you?

[Deno]

Yes, fear and/or hunger could drive some of the peasants, I agree. I am asking about those with guns and arms, a very large number of people there own guns and could EASILY overthrow Saddam had they really wanted to.

Now that America is attacking it would seem that those wanting freedom would help out, but instead they are taking to the streets against American occupation. I don't get it.

It makes no sense to me that if living conditional are so bad and everyone there has been raped or tourtured by Saddam and his sons the people would just cope. I don't know of a single person who wouldn't stand up to oppression and fight in that kind of a condition, especially if you have a family. I would really like to see what the overall living conditions are, not just the selected areas we are able to see on the news.

I guess what I am trying to get at, is what is it that he offers to these people to make them commit such acts? Why are they so happy to do so? I am not talking about the poor peasants, I am talking about the upper levels of the armed forces there, what keeps them from turning the guns against Saddam? I know if I had been treated as badly as the news reports everyone has been I would turn my gun on an oppressive government as soon as it was put into my hands.

[Irish]

Deno---The main difference,is that to you it's an inconvience,
to them;it's what they have always known.Saddam has offered
1000s of dollars reward for a dead American.He has offered,at
least $10,000 more,for one alive.Do you have any idea how much that is to those people? Irish
P.S.Kind of puts a whole new meaning to the bumper sticker---
"When guns are outlawed,only outlaws will have guns!"OK,I
won't start a firearms debate.

[jseal]

Demo,

I am unaware that the average Iraqi citizen had access to firearms, as you suggest. I was under the impression that the regime of Saddam Hussein restricted access to these devices. If firearms were generally available to Iraqi citizens, then it would stand as a unique exception in the annals of dictatorships. I should like to read up on this. Would you provide me with your references when you get a chance?

Now that America is attacking, it seems that those wanting freedom are indeed welcoming their liberators. "Applause as Marines enter Basra", BBC World Service, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2875777.stm

I don’t recall reading that "… everyone there has been raped or tortured by Saddam and his sons". The trick, as I have had it explained to me, is to release enough torture victims who will tell their tales to the general public, to ensure that the general public remains in fear of their lives. A reprehensible practice, but one which is, I am led to believe, effective.

I know many people who would knuckle under to the threat of torture or execution, and truth be told, I would probably (I like to think not, but I hope never to be put to the test) be numbered among them. Both you and I know that that is what happened in Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, and still exists today in Communist China, Burma, Syria, and a distressingly large number of other countries.

I tell you again, if you have children, your first thoughts are how to protect them. Now, I will admit, that is very much my opinion, and perhaps other people don’t think as highly of their offspring as I do of mine. Perhaps we could invite those members of our community who are parents to share. This way you won’t have to rely on merely what I have to say.

In re the "overall living conditions" about which you inquire: they are awful – and deteriorating. Permit me to refer you to an anti-embargo reference from which this quote comes. "In addition to the scarcity of resources, malnutrition problems also seem to stem from the massive deterioration in basic infrastructure, in particular in the water-supply and waste disposal systems. The most vulnerable groups have been the hardest hit, especially children under five years of age who are being exposed to unhygienic conditions, particularly in urban centers. The World Food Program estimates that access to potable water is currently 50 percent of the 1990 level in urban areas and only 33 percent in rural areas."
"Iraq and Sanctions: Myth & Reality", Voices in the Wilderness, http://www.nonviolence.org/vitw/pages/myth_reality_print.html
We can debate at leisure the why and wherefore, but I trust this responds to your point.

Saddam Hussein’s regime offers wealth and power to those who are members. The top echelon lives better than you and I; they are most decidedly not treated badly. When expressed that way, I can see no reason whatsoever as to why the ones who could overthrow Saddam Hussein would overthrow Saddam Hussein.

[Irish]

FYI---This information was told to me,by my wife.I was out-
side,removing ice&snow.My wife was alternating between
watching NASCAR&war coverage.When I came in she told me that Iraqi soldiers were on the rooftops, of Bagdad,using women&
children as human shields!
As far as the question,of children.Even in the motorcycle(gang)
world,that is looked down on,by most people.That was one of the things that attracted me.Your,family,ride,possessions,etc.,were
off limits.If you had a problem,with a person,you took it up with them&left everything else alone.I have been riding for over 43yrs.
I would trust those people to protect my family before anyone.
Irish

[jseal]

Irish,

Don't get your blood pressure up - yet. Given the folks involved, I suspect the best is yet to come.

[Tess]

Yeah, Irish, I saw the same reports.

I hope all the protesters take off their rose-colored glasses and take a real look at the regime they are trying to protect from being overthrown. If we were dealing with reasonable, civilized men, perhaps there may have been a reasonable, civilized resolution to this situation.

Based on what is becoming more and more apparent daily, the war is the only thing that Saddam and his beasts understand.

[jseal]

gentlemen,

Do not demonize the enemy, lest ye be led astray!

[Irish]

I just saw this myself!In the last few days,Allied airplanes
have dropped thousands of fliers,explaining the proper way
to surrender.People have been waving a WHITE flag!When
the Marines step out,to accept their surrender,they(the
marines)are shot down.I'm as old as dirt,but a White flag,
ALWAYS meant that the others were done! Irish
P.S.I feel sorry for the people that want to surrender.I
would probably shoot them!

[Irish]

I think that I will wait until everything is evaluated,before I pass
on anymore information.Last night,on three different networks,
they related on how a "huge"plant for making chemical weapons
had been found.One said that it was 60mi.south of Baghdad,one said 100mi.,&one said 80mi.While the important thing is that the
plant is the,proverbial"smoking gun",every network,gives a different estimation.I can't help but be reminded of the VN war
(excuse me,CONFLICT),where they told the people WHAT they wanted to hear,not the truth!Ex.---(9000 enemy killed,no Americans!) Irish

[jseal]

Originally posted by Deno
Irish- do you know the name of the show or what time and channel it aired on, I would like to see that show.


You are in luck sir!

While I cannot tell you the name of the television program Irish watched, I can provide you with the url to the Sports Illustrated article on the topic

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/news/2003/03/24/son_of_saddam/

si.com, "Son of Saddam"

here is one short quote from the article, if you are too pressed for time to follow the link:

"I wish they would run their hands over our scars, see the pain in our eyes and float in raw sewage. Then there would be no questions."

Hope this helps.

[Tess]

Very enlightening, jseal. I need not demonize the enemy. They seem to be achieving that on their own.

One question, where is the outcry by the human rights activists against Saddam and his regime? Why all the venom toward George Bush? The U.S. is forcing an end to one of the most brutal regimes in modern times, and all the protestors can do is demonize the President of the United States. It seems the moral outrage is a little bit late, and grossly misdirected.

I just don't get it...

[Irish]

H@rd Rock---First of all,so I won't be labeled as prejudiced,
let me say that I'm NOT Republican!I&my wife are both
registered as independants.From watching everything,it seems
to both of us,that this has been more of an anti-Bush protest,
than it has a human rights campaign.I voted for John McCain,
in the primary but I believe in supporting my President. Irish