Morals be damned or embraced?

[skipthisone]

There have been many threads on here about "what is cheating", "Is Cyber cheating", and the answers have been as varied as the wonderful people here at Pixies. We all talk about is it cheating on your spouce if you talk to a certain person almost everyday in IM, some you say yes, some say no way. But this thread asks the question just a step further.

I consider myself to be a fairly moral person. I say fairly because I am the type of guy who if I saw a little old man drop his wallet and he didnt know it, I would retrieve it and give it back to him, no problem. However if I saw a guy I didnt like drop his wallet and he didnt know, and I picked it up and a wad of 100 dollar bills poked out of it, it would go into my pocket without a tinge of guilt.

But I am actually thinking about the moral dilema of monagamy. We all have opinions on this, and I myself with the exception of many online friends have never been unfaithful or even lied to my spouce about anything. But the thing that rolls in my mind is that there are things I don't get at home and I am very open and talk about them with my spouce and know will never happen.

So what has been rolling around in my mind is that I know myself and I know that someday, it may be when I am 50, I will probably cheat...this bothers me and doesnt at the same time...what do you people think??????

(BTW, Lixy be damned...that was a longass post)

[Lilith]

I would return the $$$$ to anyone who dropped it.........I will never physically cheat on my spouse.......(emotionally I have come close enough to feel guilty, those damn burry lines, and IMs)

I think just knowing you WILL cheat speak volumes........to me it speaks of intentions. What keeps you from cheating today? Are you just assuming that one day you will be so tempted that you can not refuse but til now have not been so tempted?

Come lie on Dr. Lilith's couch this requires exploration :p

[skipthisone]

I think it just means my moral centers are not in the place society says they should be, is that a bad thing? Depends on who you ask.

[dzbuster]

what is cheating? i always thought it was breaking my word by doing something i said i wouldn't. keeping that in mind i'll say that i won't have sex without her there but i sure won't say i won't look at an other woman. i only cheated once in my life and told her about it when i got home and she asked where i was. i've also said flat out that a relationship wasn't going to stay monogamous when i was knew i couldn't happily be confined like that. she had the choice to stay or go.

[Lilith]

Well I think that it is you, not society that has to face your spouse and yourself... If you can accept it then others be damned.

[Vigil]

Does Lilith's couch have shackles?

Realising some fantasies is compatible within a relationship, others are not.

It's a little unfair as you may not have had this fantasy when you were asked and expected to make the monogamous committment.

A moral is the accepted custom/practice of a community/culture. Given that 60%+ of westerners cheat, you could presume that this was the moral imperative.

[Lilith]

Originally posted by Vigil
Does Lilith's couch have shackles?


A moral is the accepted custom/practice of a community/culture. Given that 60%+ of westerners cheat, you could presume that this was the moral imperative.

Yes......

and excellent point!!!!! Has cheating become not only the expected but accepted practice in heathen countries like the US??????????;)

[Vigil]

Just hold on there - since when did you have the monopoly on being heathen?

We were torturing and burning heathens before you were even invented.

Us heathens may now be the majority - Nuns and Priests be warned??!!

[skipthisone]

Vigil I agree with you, I actually have many catholic friends who I know have cheated on their spouses and think it is ok, because to them getting a divorce is so much worse.

[celticangel]

I think that I could forgive a "physical" cheat, but never when my s/o's heart and soul are cheating too! Been on the recieving side and hope that I never cause that much hurt to anyone!

[Missy1965]

I wasn't married but as of recent I was in a relationship that ended badly and in my heart I know it was because someone else had entered the picture. Worse feeling in the world. Being unfaithful to your spouse is the absolute worse pain in the world to put upon someone else. Don't do it it's just not worth it in the end. You will lose everything including your self respect. The word "Cheat" speaks for itself.

[Oldfart]

Cheat is a blurred and emotional term like love.

To him, basking in the glow of a platonic relationship may be OK,

to her, a cheat.

Phone sex, or cyber sex may or may not be, depending on viewpoint.

Sex in an open relationship may not be (at a stretch).

Morals are the limits you place on yourself, and when you cross the line,

you've done a bad thing.

[Booger]

cheating can only be difined by 2 people the ones in the relationship where some people cheating might be have fantasies about some one else and others there might be all most nothing that is off limits

[RandyGal]

Adding another twist though...how many people have said for years that they would never cheat and they never did...NOR did they ever expect to or LOOK to do so..

but when truly faced with the decision, the reality of what they say they'd do and what they actually ended up doing are two different things.

Geez.........does that make sense?


I think there are many good souls out there who cheat in different aspects of their lives...whether it is in their marriage or any other behavior that society deems dishonest.



Again, geez..am I even on topic? LOL

[Lilith]

RandyGal~ I think part of that is what Skip was getting at........I think he is saying (and forgive me if I fuck it up) that he knows his self well enough to be able to say that he has desires that he will not always be able to deny.

I said I will never cheat.......the whole truth is I try VERY hard not to put myself in a position where I might be tempted. I have great morals and shit self control.

[Vigil]

I can resist anything, but temptation.

Some have open relationships, some have closed and for some the door is slightly ajar. In a grown up relationship you define your own limits with love and respect. If the latter goes, you have problems.

For your info STO I used to have a fantasy that couldn't be physically realised by my partner. I used to feel like you that at some stage curiosity would win. Truth is that over time this fantasy doesn't interest me anymore. You never know how you will evolve.

[RandyGal]

Originally posted by Lilith
RandyGal~ I think part of that is what Skip was getting at........I think he is saying (and forgive me if I fuck it up) that he knows his self well enough to be able to say that he has desires that he will not always be able to deny.

I said I will never cheat.......the whole truth is I try VERY hard not to put myself in a position where I might be tempted. I have great morals and shit self control.


Yep, when I went back and re-read that's what it seems...so I wasn't too off track. LOL LOL

Self control? What's that? The older I get the less I have! Wassup with that? :p

[Lilith]

Maybe we are just mature enough and have enough self awareness to realize we have none. I think when I was younger I thought it was guts:p

[skipthisone]

You know what, for a bunch of damn pervs we are all pretty deep, caring and smart group of people

[Coach Knight]

I know I said I was away but I had to jump in here real quick.
STO, you are a good guy and whatever you decide to do is obviously entirely up to you.

I guess you have to weigh whether cheating at the age of 50 and after (I am guessing but I think 25+) years of marriage is worth it.

Chris Rock had an interesting rant about this.
It was called: Your Woman vs. New Pussy or something like that.

He said something about New Pussy doesn't yell at you to do the dishes or take out the garbage or mow the lawn.
But he also said that New Pussy won't take care of you when you are sick, be with you on holidays, cook you your favorite dinner and a whole myriad of other things.

Remember, when your 75 and retired:
If you cheated and got caught - would it be worth it when your all alone and thinking about how you screwed things up to go after that hot chick flirting with you at the copier machine.

If you didn't cheat - You can look over at the person you grew old with while your grandkids ask you how you and grandma met.

Of course it could be indicitive of other problems as well.

Whatever you decide to do, I'm sure it will be the right decision.

Just thought I'd throw my 2-cents (or a whole money bag of change) into the mix.

Sorry for stepping on your loquacious toes Lixy. ;)

I'm off to go hide in my cave again.

[skipthisone]

As always, good points CK.

[gekkogecko]

Originally posted by skipthisone

But I am actually thinking about the moral dilema of monagamy.

You seem to be losing sight of something here, STO: monogamy is only a moral dilemma from a viewpoint of one particular set of morals.

That being said, it seems to me that you have adopted that particular set of morals as your own: I respect that, and will not in any way, criticize you for doing so.

However, I will point out that the answer may lie in re-examining this ethical system, and making a desicion (and this decision *must* include the input of your s/o) about whether or not you feel you need to continue along this path.

Then, whtever path you do choose to follow, stick to it.

[scotzoidman]

Originally posted by skipthisone

I consider myself to be a fairly moral person... But the thing that rolls in my mind is that there are things I don't get at home and I am very open and talk about them with my spouce and know will never happen.

So what has been rolling around in my mind is that I know myself and I know that someday, it may be when I am 50, I will probably cheat...this bothers me and doesnt at the same time...what do you people think??????
I think you think too much, dude...let's see, you don't get all you want at home, & you're beating yourself up over something you haven't done, but think you might do someday...is that about it? Listen to the man who's rapidly approaching the Golden Number that you specified, you just need a guiltectomy...I'm approaching 30 yrs of monotony...er, monogamy, there's been a couple of close calls but no real violations of my vows, & I don't forsee any in the future...but you & I are men, & prone to slip if the Little Head starts doing the thinking...but I think you might just be alright anyway...after a while, other women can just look at ya & tell that you're married, whether you got a ring on or not...

How's that for a wordy message from me...

[skipthisone]

Thanks scotz

[denny]

Real temptation staring you in the face is much different than philosophy. Yes, I have stared down the barrel and walked away, but I have also succumbed. Never went looking, don't want to risk my relationships but certain situations grab me where I live and won't let go.

[jennaflower]

Your morals are a large part of who you are... you have built them one by one based on your life experiences... thus turning away from your morals... would be akin to turning away from yourself...

This being said.. morals are bound to change over time, a result of experiences that you have yet to live. It is possible in the future that your morals will change... it is called evolution.

Could it be that you are anticipating a "mid-life" crisis?

[denny]

Mid-life is like between birth and death right? Yup, that's what I'm having. A mid-life crisis.

[LixyChick]

Originally posted by Coach Knight

Sorry for stepping on your loquacious toes Lixy. ;)
I'm off to go hide in my cave again.

Wait a !%$damned minute here! How'd you sneak in and pull that soap box from under me?

Ohhhhhhhh Coach! I'm really sorta glad a part of me rubbed off on you! The loquacious part hun........DON'T TOUCH the goodies! What a treat to see you are still around CK! I do miss you.....but I understand!

CHEATING huh?

I should write a book on this topic.......it is so diverse. Seems that "cheating" is in the mind of the beholder regardless of what the official dictionary meaning says. I say.........if you think you are cheating.....you probably are cheating.........be it in cyber or physically! The better question is.........can you live with that knowledge even if you were never found out?

Things that make ya go hmmmmmmmmmmm??????

[Lilith]

Can you live with the results if it were found out?hmmmmmmmmmmm

[Doomsday]

I am a very moral person.... but I've only had one face-to-face Girlfriend (and only 2 total)... but the thought never happened for me.... not really.... it ended badly with her (and I really think she was messing around on me but I'll never know)... so I don't know much else.

I am all for what the other person wants... I don't care either way.. for me... if I am with someone I only want to be with them... its how I am...

[IAKaraokeGirl]

When I first moved to Iowa, it was to a town of about 10,000, right on the Mississippi River, across from Illinois. Over time, I came to know some people there, and, when talking with them, found out that some of them had not once ventured out of the state--even though that just meant driving across a bridge.

Some of them had no desire to go across that bridge, even though they knew what was on the other side, could see it. Some of them were envious of me and my travels, of the places I'd been, but were still satisfied with their comfortable existence. Some listened intently, a seed planted in the back of their mind, that maybe "someday" it might be nice to venture across. Others made plans to talk to their S/Os about maybe taking a trip--whether it was a day trip or something longer.

It all depended on the person--their views of their lives, their happiness with what they had, their limitations or their sense of adventure. What would Sue, Mary, or Mabel say if one day I said I'd like to take the trip, after not having the desire before?

I think it's a little similar to what we've been talking about on this thread. It's up to the individual person--a sense of what's right, what he or she is comfortable with, how satisfied he or she might be if crossing that bridge never comes to fruition.

[denny]

If you can't live with the results of your actions(if they become public), you better rethink your decision matrix. My answer would be yes. EXCELLENT QUESTION.

[souls_cry2000]

I think that given the right situation or the right amount of temptation anyone will cheat. Most conditions being a mutual understanding with another person, a lack of something that can be fullfilled elsewhere, or quite possibly the over-SEXed factor. The over-SEXed factor being a person finding themselves in a situation where you literally smell sex. Let's say for instance a room full of naked horny cheerleaders or for some a room full of naked and horny Vin Diesel knockoffs.

[LixyChick]

WOW IAKaraokeGirl! Wonderful juxtaposition! I am in awe!

[IAKaraokeGirl]

I'm too humble to respond with something like, "Thank you, thank you" (taking a bow). :)

[Lilith]

Great point IAKaraokeGirl!!!!


~ "crossing the bridge" takes on a whole new meaning to me when you have a family......... if you "cross the bridge" are you saying that your lust, or desires, or needs are more important than those people who you are committed too ( kids are considered a commitment in this reference too)??????

[LixyChick]

Originally posted by souls_cry2000
The over-SEXed factor being a person finding themselves in a situation where you literally smell sex. Let's say for instance a room full of naked horny cheerleaders or for some a room full of naked and horny Vin Diesel knockoffs.

How do I get an invite to this party???????

LMAO souls_cry2000!!!! I'm just trying to figure how this would come out in the wash.........

"Honey, I swear I couldn't help myself. You would have done the same thing if the room had been full of Vin Diesel's (Steven Tyler's in my mind)..........how can you slight me this room full of naked, horny cheerleaders? It's not like I invited them........they just happened to be in the same room at the same time. I'm only human, for crying out loud! I might have a more sensitive nose than others!"

Oh gawddddddddddd!!!! ROFLMFAO!

[IAKaraokeGirl]

Lixy, I'm with you. I know I hate it whenever something like that happens to me.

[skipthisone]

Cross the bridge to the orgies....everyone follow me

[IAKaraokeGirl]

>Cross the bridge to the orgies....everyone follow me<

There's a joke--or a song--somewhere in this.

(Imagining hundreds of Pixie's members marching single file across the bridge...)

[denny]

Damn, I've seen this in two other threads. Must be some common underlying tenet.Hmmmmmm

[sugar]

Originally posted by souls_cry2000
I think that given the right situation or the right amount of temptation anyone will cheat. Most conditions being a mutual understanding with another person, a lack of something that can be fullfilled elsewhere, or quite possibly the over-SEXed factor. The over-SEXed factor being a person finding themselves in a situation where you literally smell sex. Let's say for instance a room full of naked horny cheerleaders or for some a room full of naked and horny Vin Diesel knockoffs.

I think I agree with you, souls_cry! I guess it's been a while since I have believed in the neverending love and faithfulness. In my last "serious" relationship that lasted more than 10 years, I cheated myself after a year. It was something I couldn't help. I just met a guy frim school, there had always been a sexual tension between us and someday we just met again and "had to" have sex. The next day, me and my boyfriend flew to Cuba on vacation and I didn't even feel guilty. I have had sex with someone else for the first time, but it didn't effect my relationship in any way. Many years later, I tried to break up with him and end the long relationship, things weren't going great anymore. So almost 9 years after cheating at him for the first time, I did it again, this time with other intentions. I slept with a colleague, just to make it easier to end the relationship.

Now, after being single for almost 4 years, I jsut had an affair with a married man. You may say, " that new pussy will never really take care of you when you're siclk" or something like that. BUT you know what? I would LOVE to make him tea when he's sick or cook dinner for him. But I can't. Because he has a wife at home who he doesn't talk to anymore and who never asks how his day has been. So where is the moral here? Is it staying together, no matter what, just for the sake of staying together and of the fear of being alone? Or has "moral" something to do with being honest to each other and admitting when love is over one day and there is nothing left to talk about?

What's wrong with moving on? Any chance there might be more than one love in your life?

[skipthisone]

Great to have your point of view Sugar, and I know exactly where you are coming from.

[skipthisone]

Actually I am bumping this, I was reading Sugar's post again and I just think it is perfectly to the point of the matter, for me anyway.

[IAKaraokeGirl]

I agree with Sugar, as well. It all depends on your comfort level. Many people have a misconception about affairs...in my humble opinion, it's not always about the sex. Often something else is missing--a vital part of something--whether it's friendship, companionship, caring...or, as Sugar puts it, someone asking you how your day has been. Certainly, sexual adventure in and of itself is not a bad reason, either...but a person venturing into something like this should examine his or her own reasons and what he or she expects out of this. Are you looking for a one-time, rip-your-clothes-off love fest? Or are you looking for someone who can give you that, as well as a listening ear when you've had a rough day and a pat on the back when you've done something well?

Over the years, I've realized that "serial monogamy" is not for everyone...that there are certain people out there who are capable of loving more than one person at a time...that there are people out there who, no matter how moral they are and how much they love their significant other, simply *cannot* remain faithful. I don't judge those people, nor do I consider it a "character fault." That's just who they are, and once they accepted that, it seemed like their comfort level rose, because they could be content with themselves and who they were.

And now I'm going to get off my liberal soapbox. :)

[Lilith]

To me motivation makes the difference.......Sugar says the married man she had the affair with is in a relationship where the love appears to be gone. It is simple to fall into an affair when you have nothing to lose. His relationship was over before he had sex with someone else.

I read once somewhere that we are drawn to people not really for who they are, but how they make us feel about ourselves when we are with them........ to me this is why people cheat.

[sugar]

Exactly, Lilith, motivation is what counts. I agree. And even if it was only for a relatively short time (this affair), I felt totally loved, understood and cared for. At the same time, Karaoke girl, I think you're right too. Some people have love for many people, sometimes even at the same time. This doesn't make us bad people, but sometimes it is difficult for others to understand. It is for me, too, when I am the one who has to share a loved one...

Confusing? Never mind....

[IAKaraokeGirl]

Not confusing, Sugar. I understand what you (and Lilith) are saying, and I think I tried to touch on that myself. An affair isn't necessarily done just for the sex, but often because we get something else out of it--that feeling of being loved, understood and cared for, friendship, or, at the very least, a lesson learned. As you say, the people involved in such a situation aren't bad people...just people who have made alternative choices. And...loving more than one person at a time is a whole other subject...and often very difficult.

[Lilith]

Do you think someone can have an affair (continuous) and the sole motivation be sex?

and the love thing.......I am not touching that one either..........LOL

[IAKaraokeGirl]

No, unless the sex is pretty damn good, definitely not. Even then, over time, I don't think you can have (and I laugh as I type this) continuous sex with someone without feelings of some sort (friendship or whatever) developing.

And I'd run, Lilith, as fast as you can from the "l" word. :)