cheating? or innocent fun?

[Jen T]

My husband is addicted to this site. I have made it clear that I don't appreciate him discussing sex (especially if it's about me) with other people on line. He refuses to give it up. I think he is obsessed with some thing or some one on this site. He is constantly sending and receiving "private messages".

He says it's just innocent fun - I say it's cheating. What do you think?

[Sharni]

If he is not being totally honest with you then to me that would be cheating....but thats just my opinion

To him it maybe harmless fun, but to you it obviously isn't

Sounds to me like you both need to sit down and discuss this rationally and come to some sort of compromise.

[Naughty Nympho]

I agree. Good advice

[happybobo]

Does he let you in on the "private messages"?

[RandyGal]

I feel a bit different on this subject.

I don't feel that it's cheating nor do I think it should be looked at as a threat to a relationship.

Many people here are wonderful folks willing to have friendships aside from the fact of where they met.

Sending and recieving PM's doesn't mean anything bad is going on or that it IS going to happen.

Even if people do participate in cybersex, I still don't consider that cheating or threatening. I view it as no different than watching or reading porno. Nope, I see it as personal porno.

Yes. I'm weird.

I do think sometimes people over react to sexual innuendo or discussions especially when their partners have them with online "strangers"...
I have always felt that society is too uptight about sex and THAT makes the topic feel threatening to those who are a bit on the prudish side.

***disclaimer: nothing wrong with being prudish, my own mother being the biggest prude in the world! god love her. :)

[happybobo]

I'd have to say that while it may not be "technically" cheating it is still a betrayal of the relationship. However, the PMs maybe innocent talking and no cybersex is going on. If he is acting funny about it then I'd be suspicious also. I'd also like to add my $.02 about being a prude. Personally, I feel that expecting a certain level of trust and loyalty from your husband is not being prudish. That is just what your relationship is about...others have different ideals about what marriage is.

Mrs. Bobo

[Steph]

Interesting perspective, Randy. I agree with most of what you wrote, however, I think cybersex is a modern form of cheating. If you bring someone to orgasm, even if it is through words could be considered cheating . . . I think it's really cool that so many couples contribute to this site . . . do the contributing couples consider cybering a form of swinging?

[RandyGal]

So if someone masturbates to porn magazines or a movie is that cheating?

I'm thinking that it is then to many people.

[Reverend Silky]

so... if i bust one readin' what some chick types to someone else in a chatroom, is that considered voyeurism?

[Reverend Silky]

damnit, Randy, you stole my opening "so". *shakes fist all aggravated-like*

[RandyGal]

I just want to add a reason or two why I have the views that I do.

For many years I've known several men who were AWFUL to their wives....

BUT they never cheated on them.

Those women were put down and humiliated at home....

but the husbands never cheated on them.

If it were ME in those womens shoes I would have WISHED for a kind husband and would have put up with cheating before I put up with what they did for so many years.

Yep again. I'm an odd duck with very odd views sometimes. :)

[RandyGal]

p.s. sorry reverend silly...er...SILKY. didn't mean to steal your thunder....
by the way, you are in top form tonite dear. ;)

[MilkToast]

what constitutes cheating... man, that one has been discussed in at least two or three threads around here before (some very interesting points of view I must add)...

I am not sure that chatting on-line or looking at magazines (etc) would be considered cheating...

But, if it is something that your partner has made clear that they do not like AND you agreed not to do it, but continue to do it... then it is a violation of trust. And without trust there can be no good relationship!

If your partner is up front about it, and you do not like it, then it is just time to sit down have that long talk and figure out how the relationship is going to proceed... is this enough for you to move on? or is this something that you are willing to tolerate? if you are willing to move on, is it something that your partner will stop to keep you around? or will they let you go?

[hmm, feeling the soap-box which I have no right to be standing on creaking below me... stepping off now]

[Reverend Silky]

"...we'll eat your children and steal your thunder". damn, i love Cake. it's alright, Randy... this time. *wags finger in a warning manner*

[RandyGal]

Ahhh but MilkToast (which by the way I think your name is great)....

trust. I sometimes wonder if we build too much on trust.

Do you think women tell their husbands how much they spend at the hairdresser? Their husbands know that it costs alot so the woman lies to him and tells him that it costs less than it really does.

Trust issue?

Or just avoiding conflict?

Is avoiding conflict always a problem?

Sometimes one partner NEEDS to vent or talk about things which the other one views as threatening.
Sometimes the whole issue of trust is more of a control issue.

**Ugh. Please don't flame me or hate me...I know my ideas are unusual...and sometimes I'm only playing devils advocate to get other ideas on the table**

[PantyFanatic]

What each person has said is right for them. For each of us, it IS the way we feel about it. Just like in the face-to-face world, I have had just one hell of a lot of fun with a whole bunch of nice people.:D I’ve come to feel truly close to a number of people here at Pixies and consider them as much a friend as any in my daily life.:) I also have experienced a very intimate and caring relationship here:p, just like the real world.

The important thing is that the people involved share honest feelings. You and your mate are ALWAYS the first people involved.:confused: I believe it’s up to each of us to find what is comfortable and pleasant for us in an adult world.;)

My prospective, for me, is that I’ve found more up-front and honest people here than I run into in the “real world” because we came here with honest common interests and without the pretext required before the commonality is established. I believe the unwritten guide here is, be nice to everyone and go with what is good for you. I’d like to live in the real world where this was the basic guide.:D

[vampeyes]

Just my $0.02

First off the idea of him discussing your sex life on line..every one here on Pixies is anonymous..we have our screen names and such so it's not like someone actually knows who you are and will walk up to you on the street one day and say "......" (whatever it may be that you don't like hubby discussing) Second of all pms can (and are for me at least many times) be innocent. Just a hello or to say that you share a view with someone or a few kind words to someone if you see that they are down or whatever the situation may be. I am not going to say that the sexual inneuendo does not fly hot and heavy here ..it does. But I feel that Pixies is a fun place that like minded individuals (and sometimes not so alike) come to share thier views on many things not just sex...... I hope that helps . :)

[RandyGal]

I hope I didn't come off as being unfeeling about the original question.

It's obviously bothering her very much and I'm sorry that it's such an issue for them as a couple.

I guess sometimes the whole pornography debate gets people worked up and I can't always figure out why.

Here's an example of what I mean.

When I worked at the free clinic, some of the people either visiting us or WORKING at the clinic had a hard time with words like penis and vagina.

We desensitized them by having them say the word over and over until it was somewhat meaningless. There is and was NO reason for people to be unable to SAY these words...some people would actually sweat bullets and feel faint when they were forced to say them! LOL
That was clearly an over reaction and is often how people feel about pornography.

I do understand though, that the original poster here is feeling like there's an affair or something like that....

[Sharni]

Do you think women tell their husbands how much they spend at the hairdresser? Their husbands know that it costs alot so the woman lies to him and tells him that it costs less than it really does.
Hmmmm...i dunno about other women...but i tell Bilbo everything...including what i spend at the hairdressers.
And i expect the same honesty in return from him.
If it were ME in those womens shoes I would have WISHED for a kind husband and would have put up with cheating before I put up with what they did for so many years
If it were me in that womans shoes, i'd have left the sorry bastard and found another one i could trust!!
So if someone masturbates to porn magazines or a movie is that cheating?
Neither of these things actually interact with you to bring you pleasure...you do most of the work
Where as cybering is 2 or more ppl interacting live or in real time

And i dunno about you but would you run off an live with a porn mag or vid.....
Yet i know for a fact that ppl run off with their cyber lovers!!!

[Grumble]

I had a very sexless marriage and I found the internet and went cybering like mad for a while. It was having affairs without being out in the open.

I met a woman with whom i have shared a great deal over the past 3 years. My wife from whom I am seperated considered it an affair though we have never met.

I can see her viewpoint and it is too late for my marriage.

I have not cybered anyone at Pixies but perhaps I might one day. I have some great friends with whom I send PM's to quite often, usually just personal stuff. I flirt and make innuendo cos it is fun but I have respect for people and would not offend on purpose.

This place is fulfilling in a lot of ways and many couples come here. I don't hear of people trying to break up relationships at all, so unlike other adult meeting places either sexually or romantically oriented. You on accasion see people asking for people in certain areas for contacts and they rarely get a reply.

I urge you to sit down and talk, really talk with your husband about your worries. Offer to join him and share Pixies with him as many do. If yoyu cannot agree between yourselves, Please please go to counselling together. That will really help.

I wish you both all the best in the world and hope that you can build your marriage back up. I support and respect relationships and would never knowingly advocate for anyone to leave theirs without doing the utmost to sort out the problems first.

[axe31]

he needs to show you what he is doing if
its nothing then hes nothink to hide
you need to talk about it
lol hope you both can sort it out

[axe31]

randygal i happen to agree with you no ones
opinion is wrong just differant but they need
to sort out there differanses to be in harmony

[Jen T]

Sharniqua - You have hit the nail on the head so to speak.

I do not object to videos and magazines. It's the live interaction with others that I find completely inappropriate for a married person. (Unless that married person's spouse wants to join in and "swing" like Steph suggested.)

[RandyGal]

Wow. Yes.

GREAT points Sharniqua and Grumbleguts. Excellent in fact.

Excellent advice too...

I certainly wish her and her husband well and that she can get some communication going about the subject of his being here.

Again, thanks for not blasting me for some of my more unusual viewpoints...your thoughts Grumble and Sharniqua are ALL much more marriage friendly than mine are.

[Jen T]

grumbleguts - I was also interested in your perspective.

Unfortunately for my husband, the lack of sex in this marriage is his own fault. He made a choice a long time ago to devote his time and attention to the computer while virtually ignoring his wife and kids.

It has been only recently that I noticed the pixies web site coming up on our computer log over and over that I confronted him about it.

My reason for starting this thread in the first place was to get his attention. I tried being up front with him in the real world and that didn't work. Maybe we will be able to resolve this and maybe we won't. Maybe it's already been too late for years and I just didn't want to admit it.

Thanks for your help.

[Oldfart]

An interesting and revealing thread.

Most of us here use Pixies as a meeting place, much like a mixed

group at your favourite pub or coffee shop.

Some of the conversations are inane, some insane, some

erotic and some just plain fun.

Pixies fills a part of life we aren't finding 'out there'.

Is it cheating? No way.

Is it 'naughty'? Only most of the time, the way some pub groups

get away from sexual talk for up to 20sec at a time.

Can it lead to cheating? Only if the individual wishes.

Don't shoot the messenger, talk to the husband.

ps PMs are good for flirting, not cyber sex.

Just my take.....

[Grumble]

Jen, my hopes are that he will read this thread and start to communicate with you. I commend you for taking this action. Perhaps he has some untreated depression as I did that makes you draw away.
You are being brave and I really am hoping that things will change.
I have had counselling together with my ex and had we done it a couple of years earlier we may have been able to have averted the pain we both caused each other. The things that came to light with a neutral and trained person brought many things to light that we would never had said face to face alone.

For the sake of the innocent children who will be hurt I cannot stress enough that you give every avenue a fair try. Also it is extremely painful for the two people involved. I know all about it through experience.

So hubby whoever you are, please communicate and get this out in the open. you never will know what will happen if you don't try.

[Irish]

I think that of all of the replies;I'd agree with pantyfanatics the
most.I deeply value the friends that I have made here;sometimes
more than the ones in real life.
Randygirl(formal)---If I read; your reply right;you think that masturbating to a magazine or picture is cheating.My wife and I;
think;just the opposite.We have always encouraged the others
masturbating because people have different sex drives,the other
isn't always available,it's enjoyable and we figured that it was better than having physical contact with another person.Fantasy
life is not the same as real life!
I;also;do not think that she would appreciate my discussing our
personal sex lives with others.That is between the two of you!
Irish

[Jen T]

Oldfart - I've tried talking to the husband.

I explained to him that to me a private message is like a phone call.

Are you or have you been married? Do you think your wife would appreciate it if you called women friends on the phone to talk about sex and flirt outrageously?

[happybobo]

Agree, private messages are like phone calls. I know my wife wouldn't appreciate me getting pm's unless she were to be involved.

[Irish]

JenT---That's why I always say -Different strokes;for different folks!To me a PM is nothing like a phone call.I PM with alot of males here.Does that make me gay?I think that my wife would tell
you-"Not a chance!"I have been married to the same woman for
37yrs now;and I think that she would know.There is nothing wrong with it but that's just not me! Irish
P.S.There are friends and there are sexual partners!

[happybobo]

Hey Irish...slow your role, man. No one is saying PMs=homo Irish...just saying they're a means of communicating in real time.

[Steph]

I think porn is different because you're getting off on an image whereas cybering is interaction with another person. I've only been on this site for a short time and some pms are innocent, others aren't. I'm sure we're all different and there are thousands of different reasons for logging on.

I've cybered when I was in a long-distance relationship and admittedly, felt guilty about it. When I've purchased erotica or watched porn while dating someone, I didn't have the guilt.

I appreciate every one's viewpoints and wouldn't dream of flaming you RandyGirl - You've made some very good points, too.

My thoughts are with you, Jen.

[Irish]

HappyBoBo---I wasn't saying that PMs=gay.I was using that as a
comparison.I subscribe to Muscle and Fitness&Flex also because
one of my hobbies is bodybuilding!I recently wrote to their Feedback column because a woman wrote in bitching about the
fact that they had just had a swimsuit edition(or something like
that)She complained that she didn't want her husband looking at
those women in skimpy suits.I wrote in that I had told my wife that some woman would complain& that it didn't make me gay if
I looked at men in posing suits.They published my letter(by the way)because they realised the comparison.If you look at the back
issues of Flex;you will see a letter signed Thomas J Ahern;63 Calef
Hwy.,Rochester,N.H.That is me. Irish

[RandyGal]

Irish said:

"Randygirl(formal)---If I read; your reply right;you think that masturbating to a magazine or picture is cheating."
________________________________

Actually I'm saying just the opposite.

I don't happen to think masturbating to a magazine, picture or anything else is cheating. I also don't happen to think PM's are cheating nor is cybersex. It's personal yes, but it isn't cheating in the way I define the word. :)

Sometimes two people meet and marry and need different kinds or types of stimulation. A place like this where you can joke, tease, and make friends with people who on a whole are very sexual beings doesn't mean you are having an affair with those people....innuendo and flirting here are not the same as sex and sometimes it's what keeps the libido going at home.

Sorry this got so long...it isn't my thread and I don't want to hog it.

I just wouldn't want someone to judge the whole place just by the fact that many of the topics are sex related. There are many MORE fun things and people here too...

[Steph]

I also knew you were saying the opposite, Randy. You're not hogging this thread. It is the most serious thread I've contributed to since I've been here. JenT's husband - are you here, what's your take on this?

[Sharni]

RandyGal ~ Hogging is not an issue here...this is a great thread that has brought out many valid points...some i agree with some i do not..

You know what i like about this thread most of all....is the fact that as far as i have read...ppl have agreed & disagreed..but we have all done it politely...without any flaming

When you think about it....because of the amount of differing ppl, with differing ideas, that is wonderous thing actually

We will never all agree on something, but we can all disagree politely :)

[RandyGal]

Sharniqua, I could NOT agree more. :)

This really is a nice place for people to be able to have a good discussion and you're very right. While people don't have to agree they CAN do it politely.

Tonite though, I do hope that this couple fares well thru the rough times.

[Grumble]

I too have disagreed with some of the things said in this thread but it is the very essence of Pixies that very deep and important things can be discussed with respect for other viewpoints.

For me I felt the distress of Jen T and related a lot to what happened at the end of my marriage. My wife felt that the internet was the cause of my problems. It was not actually, it was an outlet that allowed me to keep my sanity in a tough situation.

We went to councselling and we were asked when did you first feel there was trouble in your marriage, My wife said 3 years and I said 10 years. We learnt so much about each other in those sessions with another person present, things that would not have come out without her there. I am sorry that we had not gone years before as it would have changed things a lot.

I have seen that a member of Pixies is leaving and is going to counselling because of this thread and I am hoping and praying for them both. They have both said they love each other so there is real hope.

It is sad to lose a member but what a tragedy if a family falls apart and perhaps this thread has gone some way towards preventing human misery and actually helping rebuild a relationship

[Irish]

RandyGal---In the prude contest;I'd like to have a runoff between
your mother and mine.Mine is now 89yrs. and is so religous that if
the pope told her to jump off a bridge;she would do it!When I was a kid;I felt sorry for my father.She really thought that sex was for
procreation ONLY!Whatever you do; don;t enjoy it.They had trouble;concieving; again ;after me.Therefore you can imagine how much they had sexual contact! Irish

[Jen T]

Wow was that ugly.

I have the truth now, but I sure didn't like the way I got it.

He has agreed to stop using this site until we resolve our differences - or don't.

THE END

P.S. For the record: I'm not a prude, I just don't share.

[RandyGal]

I wish you and your husband all the best Jen.

I'm sorry things got ugly for you and pray that you can both get your marriage back on track.

[iikiibuu]

Erm i know i dont really have right to say but.......
Have you seen any of theses Private messages? becaus ei send and recieve alot of them when i am here and i have the time and i dont think in any of them there has been a single mention of cybersex. And the only closest link to it is me sending personal opinions on peoples posts. And i can understand about the feeling as though your boyfriend is cheating, all i can really say and possibly advise is for the both of you to sit down and have a quiet talk about it to just try and sort a few things out etc does he know about how you feel on the whole about this situation?

[Steph]

I don't think the prude comment was directed at Jen, it was more in reference to different people's reactions to things.

We can all sympathize with your feelings. I hope everything works out for you both.

[MilkToast]

Hm.m... I went away for a day and a half and this thread took off... this reply is really a bit late, but as there was a question posed I though that I would still post...

Originally posted by RandyGal
Ahhh but MilkToast (which by the way I think your name is great)....
(thanks)


trust. I sometimes wonder if we build too much on trust.

Do you think women tell their husbands how much they spend at the hairdresser? Their husbands know that it costs alot so the woman lies to him and tells him that it costs less than it really does.


I guess that it all comes down to what it is that you are looking for in life... as I have seen in many of the replies for each person it is something a little different. In my case I guess that looking around at my family and friends puts me in a place that requires a lasting relationship to have full and complete trust. I do not make friends easily, but those that I do count amongst my true close friends all know what they can expect of me... and in the return I have learned what I can expect of them.

Of course this is also the reason I am probably still single :p


**Ugh. Please don't flame me or hate me...
No fear of that happening from me (at least in most cases ;)) as there is never anything to be gained by that type of behavior...

Open discussion is the best way to learn and understand...

[RandyGal]

But sometimes milktoast I wonder if we don't require TOO much from each other....

sometimes people NEED to be able to be silly, sexual or flirt with other people.

I just don't think everyone has or MUST have the same needs/wants...and we all need to recognize that and love our partners just the same. After all, they ARE with us. :)

I think it's probably a personality difference...

I also don't know enough about Jen to say whether she's a prude or not so no, I wasn't meaning her. :)

And please, there isn't anything WRONG with being modest *another word for prude* but I still think people are individuals in how they feel about this sort of thing and I wouldn't try to change how my husband feels about this stuff nor will I change how I feel about it. We need to allow each other to be WHO we are...which more often than not makes it worth hanging in there.

Nutworld loves his wife...that is a fact. :) :) :)

[Oldfart]

If she's reading, Jen, Marian, my SO, knows and has no problems with me and Pixies.

I've been a talker and a flirt all the 25 years she's known me, and will be till

I die.

It's impossible to have an effective affair by PM, limited to 1000

characters and a 45 minute turn-around time.

Messenger audio messages, actual phone calls and meetings can.

The nasty imp on my shoulder has asked whether this is a territory matter

or if you really fear loss to a more desirable Pixie.

Trust is hard if you've let this much space impose itself between you.

[erotic51]

Like Oldfart, I also have been flirting since goodness knows when.
All my partners are aware of this and my enjoyment of erotica.
I am open and honest about that fact.

I chat with women and men online, I exchange erotic and saucy stories,
look at images and occasionally delve into the realm of cybersex.
I have a number of private groups and I enjoy doing what I do.

Among my closest friends, I count 4 ladies, an ex wife and my current partner.
Does she mind me chatting to other women? Who benefits? I do but more importantly,
my partner does as well. It helps to open new areas for discovery for us both.

Is it cheating, well I guess cybersex could be, but then as a previous post mentioned,
does looking at porn and privately masterbating fall into 'cheating'?
I guess the only way, is to be open and honest, to care and think of your partners feeling.

That said, I still believe that we all have the right to keep somethings private,
not share them. Do you tell your partner every time you look at a man or
a woman and get a tingling felling between your thighs or that you have
fantasies about makeing love to someone else? Is that's not cheating?
No its the buffer zone between total submission
and retaining your individuality.

If you take 'cybersex' to another level, ie, meeting in person,
and then acting out your fantasies, without your partner knowing,
then yes that's cheating.

I do hope that you both are able to resolve this and both share
in the joys that such a site as this can bring to a relationship.

Just my thoughts even though it's probably been said earlier.

[Wicked Wanda]

Goodness!
I had a very crowded weekend, and look what happened while I was away!
I love this place. I have never had any place that was like this before. So many wonderful, thoughtful, HORNY people!
Reading this thread, I am overcome mostly by how thoughtful, understanding, and WELL reasoned the responses are.
My two pennies:
I am VERY sexually active in my private life, AND in here. The PM's I have received have been mostly of the "Hi how are you?" kind, and a few that elaborated on posts.
All have been kind, and thoughtful, but none have been for erotic purposes.
The nastier issue is cybering a form of cheating?
Is reading the posts and erotic stories here cheating?
I have spent a lot of time thinking this over, not wanting to be the "other woman" even in cyberspace.
Right or wrong, I have decided that chatting with men and women here is not the same as sleeping with them in Real Life.
In my day to day life, I DON'T knowingly sleep with married people who are cheating on their spouses.
PERIOD.
I love sex. I love everything about it. The way a man or woman feels when I touch them, or they touch me, or when we kiss the way they taste, the way my partner tasyes during oral sex, the way a man feels inside me, or a woman who is making me cum with her fingers or tongue, or the sensation and taste of flood of hot cum in my mouth, and over my breasts.
I also love to talk about it, and to share my thoughts, feelings and experiences here with others who don't judge me because I have what some think is a promiscuous lifestyle.
And some people find these conversations erotic, and maybe orgasm while reading them or chatting with me.
Good!
The problems in your marriage are not about the computer.
At worse, his time spent flirting and maybe cybering on the computer is a symptom of other, more complex things. I don't even think his coming here is about sex, really.
I hope you two can restore your marriage.


Hopefully, ( and better late than not at all)


WW

[scotzoidman]

I've held off adding my comments to this thread, mostly because others, especially the last 4 posters, have said what I feel as well or better than I can say... Wanda said it well, sites like this are seldom the problem with a couple, but often a symptom of bigger things wrong... great as Pixie's is, it's a poor substitute for the real love I share with the LOML, & if she's sending me an invite to bed, Pixie's can wait ;) But it is a wonderful suppliment to my sex life, & I have truly learned some great things from all who share here... guess I'm just wishing it wouldn't come down to Nut having to choose one or the other, but since it did, he has made the right choice, & I would expect nothing less from him... he has always seemed to me to be the perfect gentleman, & I'm proud & glad to have made his aquaintance...

[Jen T]

I had no intentions of returning to this site after my last post, but curiosity got the better of me and now I feel compelled to respond.

I am really amazed by the number of responses and debate that a thread posted by an outsider has generated here.

I seem to be in the minority on my views of what constitutes cheating, but there are a number of resopnses which bring up the point that it is ultimately up to the individual and their SO to be open and honest and respectful of each other. This is where my problem lies.

To those of you who think PM's are innocent flirtation, I don't agree. When the message is something like: "Mmmmm, Thanks for the orgasm." And I'm told this was a response to e-mail exchange, I don't consider that innocent.

Oldfart - This isn't about control, it's about violation of trust.

At this time I would like to ask all of you pixies for a favor. Can you please let this thread end here while I still have a little bit of my dignity left. If some of you feel like you want to discuss the topic further among yourselves, could you please start a new thread? I would consider it an honor if you would let me have the last word on the thread that I started.

Thanks for your help.
Jen