This one needs a needle too

[Lilith]

Foley's IM (http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/09/exclusive_the_s.html)

I was going to just post a straight link to the IM but this way you can choose whether you are ready to read it.

[alspals69]

i'm not too sure what i think to this really.

[Lilith]

Did you read the IM?

Here's more on Foley http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Foley

[ShadowDancer]

:eew: :curse: makes me wanna :nuts: him.

[wyndhy]

asswipe

[PantyFanatic]

.......................................................................:wish: :cuffs:


:nod:

[Oldfart]

Another of the free world's knights in shining armour found to have feet of rust, or was that lust?

"Worship at the Altar of Youth" is a pretty name for an ugly thing.

[connor]

absolutely no excuse. This is someone who is supposed to be making laws that protect minors from people like him.

[PantyFanatic]

I really just didn't have a comment about such a piece of slime. I didn't need to read the transcripts to know another privileged stupid predator was caught in the coconut bushes. The only thing that troubles me as much as knowing these criminals permeate our system and society is the statements of the people that want to attack it as a political matter. :banghead:

[Lilith]

For me it most definitely is a political matter, as well as a criminal one. Key members of his political party who had the power to do something about it chose to keep silent. I think anyone who knew should be charged with aiding and abetting, and be removed from office. I don't care what party they belong to. However if his crimes were known to multiple powerful members of one party and their silence allowed him to continue, ie. they allowed him access to pages, then I wonder if the crime is conspiracy as opposed to a&a.

[osuche]

I think this guy was sick with power.....I'm glad he got caught

[jseal]

For me it most definitely is a political matter...
Lilith,

Why is that?

[PantyFanatic]

.......... I don't care what party they belong to...........
To me, that makes it a system issue and not a political one.

Aside from the subject of this individual scumbag, my concern is that I have never seen "divide et impera" so well employed in the United States as the gangsters in power today have done. I believe that only when citizens get their heads out of their ………. Left, Right, Conservative, Liberal……. arm pits and demand a government free of incompetence, cronyism and corruption, will we be a nations again worthy of expounding the lofty ideals we carve in marble, teach to the unprivileged, then cover with shit. :box:

But I guess that would be another thread, wouldn't it? :D

[jseal]

...a government free of incompetence, cronyism and corruption...
PantyFanatic,

I wish I knew of one.

[Lilith]

It's all those things you mention that make it a political matter. It is the very nature of the political structure (one party in power in at least 2 of 3 branches) as it has become today that allows for these things to occur.

If a teacher at my school was inappropriate with a student and she knew and kept silent allowing that teacher access to more children, you can bet your sweet ass she'd be in a world of hurt. She is accountable to a community which would not permit her turning a blind eye. The difference in this case is who Foley/Hastert had to answer to.

Should we not expect as much from our elected officials as we do from people who have to earn their positions? Throw the bums out!

[jseal]

It's all those things you mention that make it a political matter...
I don't recall mentioning any things.
..(one party in power in at least 2 of 3 branches) as it has become today that allows for these things to occur....
Are you suggesting that because one party is in power in 2 of three branches that these things happen? Unless I am mistaken (and alas that is all too possible) if there exist 3 branches of government (the Executive, the Legeslature, and the Judiciary), and there exists two political parties (the Democtrats and the Republicans), then at any time one or the other of the parties must control/be in power in two or more of the branches of government.
...Throw the bums out!
I do like that idea.

[PantyFanatic]

.... The difference in this case is who Foley/Hastert had to answer to.......
That was my point. I have this archaic idea that they were suppose to be answering to THE PEOPLE! Our government isn't a football game where anything you can get away with is OK as long as the coach approves.

[jseal]

...they were suppose to be answering to THE PEOPLE!...
PantyFanatic,

What are elections?

[Booger]

I'll assume PF talking about a govermant of the people for the people by the people.

[jseal]

Elected by those who care enough to vote?

[Booger]

So are you saying if some one chose not to vote they are less the some one who dose?

[jseal]

Booger,

It is very difficult, if not impossible, for a democratic government to represent the views of people who do not express their opinions by voting.

A government which is elected by people is of that people. What do you call rulers who are NOT elected?

[Booger]

Booger,

It is very difficult, if not impossible, for a democratic government to represent the views of people who do not express their opinions by voting.

A government which is elected by people is of that people. What do you call rulers who are NOT elected?


With this line of reasoning the people who vote for anyone who dosen't win are in the same boat as those who don't vote. So dose that also make them less important then the ones who voted for the winner?

[PantyFanatic]

Boog, stop putting quotes in your posts. I can't put them on ignore.

[Oldfart]

Boog,

In a perfect world an elected official acts for the electorate for which he was chosen as the preferred representative. The concept of political parties skews this altruism, and "voting at the Party call" removes the illusion of democracy totally.

Sadly, If you voted agin them, they're usually agin you.

[LixyChick]

All I can say is I'm glad he's "out" now!

[jseal]

With this line of reasoning the people who vote for anyone who dosen't win are in the same boat as those who don't vote…
Booger,

I think you are mistaken. Those who ignore reality do not work towards a resolution of important issues. Those who vote try.

Partisan politics is a natural outgrowth of a healthy democracy. An informed and active electorate – those who vote – is essential for democracies. What do you offer as an alternative?

[jseal]

All I can say is I'm glad he's "out" now!
LixyChick,

Yes'm. In more ways than one. :D

[Scarecrow]

Now what state was Foley from?? The trouble is it is not a political problem, but one of sociaty. If we had news organizations that reported an unbiased news and people listened to the truth and voted accordingly then the problem would not be so wide spread. But when the "people" do not care, the politications will do as they please and it does not matter what party they belong to, Greed is Greed.

[wyndhy]

speaking of news orgs, i was surprised by the number of people who responded to the blotter article just to smack ross for "making up news and making news out of nothing." hind sight's twenty twenty but still, jeesh. they bitch when ya do and they bitch when ya don't...

accountable to a community which would not permit her turning a blind eye.


yup yup. and furthermore, that sort of communally responsible mentality is becoming prevalent in more and more of today's criminal laws-- besides the usual aid and abet stuff--bar tenders held accountable for serving a visibly inebriated patron, failing to report known illegals, parents found criminally liable for the crimes, even just truancy, that their children commit.

it’s a twisted irony alright. these are the women and men who write and pass the bills that urge, if not force, the genpop to take a more proactive role in their communities against crime when usually they can’t be bothered to give a flying fluck about what the other people in their community have been up to until it’s election time.

[WildIrish]

I'm increasingly more discouraged each and every time I go to the polls. It's become a matter of "which candidate will harm me the least" instead of "who best represents my ideals". I can see why people stop voting.

The system is such now that people that would probably do a very good job of saying what's on most people's minds, have too many obstacles to clear. Meanwhile, assholes like Foley are not only elected...but apparently allowed to run rampent despite having been discovered by others that consciously decided to cover up a potential "stain" on the party name instead of running the risk of being applauded for taking the moral high ground and shining the spotlight on this prick.

I'm sick of nobody doing what's right.

[Cheyanne]

Regardless of Foley's political affiliation, what I believe Lil is trying to say is that those who are also of Foley's political affiliation were aware of his issues and choose to either ignore, coverup by warning pages of his potential interests, or do nothing about what he was/is doing for the main reason that the discovery of his actions would not only bring him down, but those affiliated with the same party he is. Those who kept quiet only kept quiet because they wanted to protect their image of being the majority or in 'power' politically. They weren't worried about what he did/does to children!

I agree with Lil on this - if they knew (and articles state that some knew as far back as five years ago), they should have turned him in. Instead they ignored it! That makes them just as guilty as the predator in my book.

[jseal]

Gentlefolk,

I must admit that I have a more difficult time getting worked up about this than some do. Scandalous behavior has been a repeating feature among the powerful since the time of the Roman emperors – and was probably old before that. There is even a couple of guided Washington DC tours (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/tours/scandal/article.htm) of the better good old American scandals.

Why expect these people to be any different than those they represent? Just uncover the behavior, put ‘em on trial, convict and imprison them – just as would happen to those they represent.

Lilith had the right idea: Throw the bums out! (http://www.pixies-place.com:81/forums/showpost.php?p=1286510&postcount=15) I do like the notion that the good Mr. Foley may be prosecuted under legislation he was instrumental in forging. :D

[Oldfart]

"Why expect these people to be any different than those they represent?"

They represent themselves to be pinnacles of the community.

"Just uncover the behavior, put ‘em on trial, convict and imprison them "

Easily said until tried. These people call for a burdon of proof way over the common man in order to defend these people from unfounded politically motivated actions.

[Lilith]

Bingo!^^^^^ Especially prudent when some judges are appointed by politicians.

If I can't buy beer in public because it threatens my reputation in the community, I'll be damned if someone representing the entire fucking district they are from in Florida should not be held to the same level.

[Cheyanne]

Scandalous behavior that involves taking advantage and harming children is very easy for me to get worked up about.

[Oldfart]

We have a bizarre custom here in Oz that says that if it's legal, anyone who doesn't like it can either work to change the law or lump it.

You can have freedom without anarchy or oppressive double standards.

[jseal]

Gentlefolk,

Far be it for me to say what should or should not get your knickers in a twist! If you prefer getting upset at humans behaving as humans have done throughout history, as they obviously do now, and will continue to behave (barring some unexpected ethical mutation) until the sun goes into the scheduled Red Giant phase, by all means, do your thing.

I do think that, as you seem to expect behavior from humans which cannot - in any way, shape, or form - be predicted from the culture which created them, you will be repeatedly disappointed. Why set your expectations so high? They will only be dashed repeatedly. What possible good does it do to believe for the N+1 time that this one or that one is above all that, particularly as there are sooooooooooooooo many examples – scattered throughout time and all across the planet - to suggest that the probability of it being true is so low?

Accept that these people are as we are – with all the failings and foibles we have – for they are of us. For those who want to know why these people are as venal, base and low – in addition (if we are to be honest) to being as ethical, principled and inspiring – we need look for examples no farther away than our friends and neighbors. For the brave – hold up a mirror.

[Cheyanne]

I am repeatedly disappointed jseal. I am disappointed every time I read about adults harming innocent children. However, because I am disappointed, in my own little corner of the world - I can be there for a child - whether I am able to prevent something hideous from happening to them, or by being there for them after something hideous happens. Because if I can prevent something from happening, that is one less child I will read about in the papers. If I can be there for that child that has gone through something that makes me shudder and become dissapointed, help that child get through it and not become another carbon copy of his/her abuser, then my dissapointment in our culture will never be a wasted emotion because I should expect these things to happen and to continue to happen.

I will never accept that THESE people are as I am - failings and foibles in all. :( because I am not as they are.

[Lilith]

Expect nothing better and never be disappointed. Great plan.

[Lilith]

I am repeatedly disappointed jseal. I am disappointed every time I read about adults harming innocent children. However, because I am disappointed, in my own little corner of the world - I can be there for a child - whether I am able to prevent something hideous from happening to them, or by being there for them after something hideous happens. Because if I can prevent something from happening, that is one less child I will read about in the papers. If I can be there for that child that has gone through something that makes me shudder and become dissapointed, help that child get through it and not become another carbon copy of his/her abuser, then my dissapointment in our culture will never be a wasted emotion because I should expect these things to happen and to continue to happen.

I will never accept that THESE people are as I am - failings and foibles in all. :( because I am not as they are.

I think the horror is that abuse becomes an imprint. Chey, I admire you for your commitment to children. You work everyday to make a difference. ((hugs))

[jseal]

Expect nothing better and never be disappointed. Great plan.
"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it." attributed to W. C. Fields

[jseal]

I am repeatedly disappointed jseal…
Cheyanne,

As am I madam. As is anyone who hopes for a future better than the past. As is anyone who has sufficient empathy to feel offended when those who should know better – and DO know better – default on their promises.

Rage will not solve today’s failures, nor make good the failings of the past.

…I will never accept that THESE people are as I am - failings and foibles in all. :( because I am not as they are.

Denial will not put them beyond the tribe which bore them. We raised them, taught them, elected them, and will elect the ever-so-same humans which will follow them into the offices they leave behind.

[Lilith]

"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it." attributed to W. C. Fields

Good with a phrase but hardly someone I'd seek for advice.

[jseal]

Lilith,

He matched his vision with reality. He was successful.

[PantyFanatic]

....You can have freedom without anarchy or oppressive double standards.
Once upon a time..... some of us would bet our life on that in the U.S. too. :(

[Lilith]

Lilith,

He matched his vision with reality. He was successful.

By some's warped standards so was Rep. Foley.

[jseal]

By some's warped standards so was Rep. Foley.
Lilith,

By a MAJORITY's standards.

[Lilith]

Lilith,

By a MAJORITY's standards.

Hmmm. My definition of success definitely veers drastically from what you seem to perceive. In my eyes, just because a majoority of the voter's in his district elected him to an office does not in any way make him a success. As a human he's a failure.

[jseal]

Lilith,

I agree with you! Your definition of success definitely veers drastically from what those who put him in office perceive, or to be current – perceived, to be success.

He ran, unless I am mistaken, as a politician - not a human, which you have assessed as a failure. I wonder, now that you have assessed him as a failed human, do you see him as sub human?

[Oldfart]

Doesn't this bring us back to Lil's comment about the needle? We may disagree in the nitty gritty, but the sentiment that these people should be excluded permanently from society seems to be pretty well agreed.

[rabbit]

For me it most definitely is a political matter, as well as a criminal one. Key members of his political party who had the power to do something about it chose to keep silent. I think anyone who knew should be charged with aiding and abetting, and be removed from office. I don't care what party they belong to. However if his crimes were known to multiple powerful members of one party and their silence allowed him to continue, ie. they allowed him access to pages, then I wonder if the crime is conspiracy as opposed to a&a.

I agree. If someone knew and did nothing, out they should go.

[jseal]

Doesn't this bring us back to Lil's comment about the needle? We may disagree in the nitty gritty, but the sentiment that these people should be excluded permanently from society seems to be pretty well agreed.
Oldfart,

Sorry, no.

To do so is to say that there exists a class of people who are beyond redemption. While we may all agree that such a class exists, it is most unlikely that we will agree upon its membership. If, as I suspect, this is true, then I am unwilling to consign anyone, even those who I consider truly loathsome to a sub human status. To do so is to crate a caste system more horrific than India ever had.

There is no knuckle dragging political Neanderthal chanting “My country, right or wrong!”, nor any lily livered pacifist whining “Peace at any cost!” who cannot - in principle - be reasoned with. No one said that civilized behavior would be easy or painless, only that is a preferable state to a non sentient “us good – them bad” frame of reference. To be that way is to be as bad as those who we condemn.

I feel confident that everyone who reads these words has, at one time or another, fallen, and has been grateful for the assistance, be it either tough or tender love, extended by others which helped them back up.

Problems exist. Problems can and should be corrected. Unlike some, I prefer not to give up on others.

[Lilith]

No one aside from you has called him or anyone else "sub-human".


Fallen?????In my view he is a sexual predator and those who would be his prey deserve to be protected. Whether a politician, a teacher, a priest or a Boy Scout leader, people in a position of trust should act in a way deserving of that trust. For me in this case people we were supposed to be able to trust, did and/or hid crimes against children. It's that simple.

[jseal]

Lilith,

I disagree with you. Reality is not simple.

I ask you again, now that you have assessed him as a failed human, do you see him as sub human? If not, then how can you describe him as a failed human?

[Lilith]

Boy you love to argue semantics when your opinions are not being accepted. You take every attempt at discussion and drag it to debate. Sucks the life out of so many serious discussion threads.

subhuman~ Below the human race in evolutionary development.

Nope. I said he failed as a human. His development is fine. His choices respresent his failure.

I'll not be responding to you again. I started this thread to hear the opinions and engage in a discussion with everyone here not to discuss it with you solely.

[Scarecrow]

Once upon a time..... some of us would bet our life on that in the U.S. too. :(

10-4

[jseal]

...I'll not be responding to you again...
Lilith,

Ah well, such is life...you win a few, you lose a few, and some get rained out. :)

[Lilith]

I agree. If someone knew and did nothing, out they should go.

Do you think someone knew?

[Scarecrow]

Does everyone understand that these "children" are 17 and 18 years old. Old enough to fight and die, old enough to know right from wrong. And Lilith the Congressman in charge of the Page progam knew and his is not of Foley's party.

[jseal]

Do you think someone knew?

I suspect so.

[Scarecrow]

I suspect so.



http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/03/washington/03media.html

[Lilith]

Does everyone understand that these "children" are 17 and 18 years old. Old enough to fight and die, old enough to know right from wrong. And Lilith the Congressman in charge of the Page progam knew and his is not of Foley's party.

This is from CNN

"The lawmaker who oversees the page program, Rep. John Shimkus, a Republican from Illinois, said that he learned about Foley's e-mails in late 2005 and "took immediate action to investigate the matter."

[jseal]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/03/washington/03media.html
Scarecrow,

"At least two news organizations were tipped off to e-mail messages sent by Representative Mark Foley long before the story of his sexually explicit remarks to teenage pages broke last week."

I guess they should be consigned to perdition also.

[PantyFanatic]

"..... learned about Foley's e-mails in late 2005 and "took immediate action to investigate the matter."
I bet he could "do a hell of a job" at FEMA too. :cool:

[Oldfart]

Scarecrow,

The number I read was 16, which along with 17 is below the age of consent in the USA, a fact of law rather than a statement of the readiness of the child to make informed choices.

jseal,

There are some people who we must sadly remove from mainstream, as one reluctantly severs a gangrenous hand. It's not for revenge, just self defence.

[jseal]

Oldfart,

In re winnowing out the undesirables: of course societies must protect themselves. Does anyone reading this post honestly believe that the good Mr. Foley will regain his position of power? Does anyone reading this post honestly believe that he will ever again run for public office? Of course not. But if he did, and if he was able to persuade a majority of the voters in that campaign that he would be able to improve their lives, is it for me, or you, or anyone else to prevent those voters from doing what they think best for themselves?

If there is good reason to believe he violated the law, then bring an indictment against him and try him in a court of law. If he is found guilty, assess an appropriate penalty. Here in the States dozens of politicos are indicted each year, usually bringing their visions of a New World Order to an abrupt halt. Tom DeLay, the former House Majority Leader, is a recent example of such a fall from political grace. If you want an entry from the other side of the aisle, Wilbur Mills, who headed the House Ways and Means Committee comes to mind. The legal pruning shears are quite active and effective – although some would have you believe otherwise.

You did raise a significant issue with your observation in re the burden of proof required – and why.
… Easily said until tried. These people call for a burdon of proof way over the common man in order to defend these people from unfounded politically motivated actions.
Yes sir, quite correct – and eminently justified.

Consider the case of President Clinton's Agriculture Secretary Mike Espy (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/counsels/stories/espy120398.htm), forced out of office in 1994 by allegations that he improperly took gifts from businesses and lobbyists.

Independent Council Donald C. Smaltz (http://www.gpo.gov/oic/) spent more than four years and seventeen million dollars to prosecute Secretary Espy, and the result was thirty “Not Guilty” declarations from the foreman of the trial jury. A guilty verdict could have sent him to prison.

You and I and … others ... don’t even play in the same league. Yes. The rules are different.

As Secretary Espy said of Smaltz, "He's not unlike any other schoolyard bully … You have to stand up to him. You have to let him know you're not going to back down, and sooner or later it's going to be okay."

[Oldfart]

I was under the impression that trial and retribution was a a focus of this thread, not just a kangaroo court and summary execution.

[jseal]

Oldfart,

Yes sir. Not just a kangaroo court and summary execution.

[Oldfart]

Still, the temptation is there.

[WildIrish]

Gentlefolk,

Far be it for me to say what should or should not get your knickers in a twist! If you prefer getting upset at humans behaving as humans have done throughout history, as they obviously do now, and will continue to behave (barring some unexpected ethical mutation) until the sun goes into the scheduled Red Giant phase, by all means, do your thing.

I do think that, as you seem to expect behavior from humans which cannot - in any way, shape, or form - be predicted from the culture which created them, you will be repeatedly disappointed. Why set your expectations so high? They will only be dashed repeatedly. What possible good does it do to believe for the N+1 time that this one or that one is above all that, particularly as there are sooooooooooooooo many examples – scattered throughout time and all across the planet - to suggest that the probability of it being true is so low?

Accept that these people are as we are – with all the failings and foibles we have – for they are of us. For those who want to know why these people are as venal, base and low – in addition (if we are to be honest) to being as ethical, principled and inspiring – we need look for examples no farther away than our friends and neighbors. For the brave – hold up a mirror.


One could argue that people stop voting on the same basis. They've accepted that politicians are who they are and that it doesn't matter which one gets into office...for the end results will be the same. At the end of the day, it's in their natural order to serve themselves instead of who they represent.

I voted for Former Governer John G. Rowland. He made a remarkable Congressman, and was on the fast-track to becoming President. When allegations arose surrounding his business relationship with a state contractor, I listened to what everyone had to say and watched the writing on the wall. As the investigation took roots and a fuzzy picture started to become clearer, I got pissed. I trusted him to make decisions in Connecticut's best interest, not his own. Am I not supposed to be mad? Am I supposed to think "Oh well, he's only human, thus prone to this behavior."? I'm sorry, but I don't take gifts in exchange for awarding lucrative state contracts. I follow the rules, and I abhor those that don't. I wanted to see him serve jail time. Hell, I'd have driven him there myself! He didn't start out corrupt, but he didn't have that little voice inside of him that said "Bad Fucking Idea" either, and that's not a foible. And that's something I don't have to accept...from him or anyone else that I've hired.

I'm sorry, but I expect people in positions of trust to conduct themselves with dignity and respect...for the position itself, and with respect for those that "hired" them. They should never forget why they were put there and what they were put there to do. Rowland was not there to get free hot tubs and trips to Vegas...and Foley was not put there to use subordinates to satisfy his sexual needs.

[Scarecrow]

[QUOTE=Oldfart]Scarecrow,

The number I read was 16, which along with 17 is below the age of consent in the USA, a fact of law rather than a statement of the readiness of the child to make informed choices.
QUOTE]

Oldfart they have to be 16 to apply, but do not take the postion until age 17 and it is a 6 month apaintment. And the age of consent in most states for sex is 16 and is as low as 14 in some states. I have not seen any laws that were broken, just morals.

Now if you want to get mad about a crime;


Five girls dead after Amish school shootings
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061003/ts_nm/crime_schools_dc_22

[wyndhy]

that shooting is horrible. worse than horrible. it's also the third in a week here in the us :( and not all that far from where we live either.




perhaps someone else will know for sure, but i think the adam walsh act (a section of it co-sponsored in part by foley :rolleyes2) made it illegal, a felony in fact, to solicit a minor for sex over the internet. if i remember, the big deal with the bill is that it removes this doubt of consent and age and what state has what age of consent or if the kid lied and said they were thirty. it’s now a federal law to solicit a minor for sex and there’s no bullshit. this is the same bill that aims to help make the internet safer for kids from internet predators and from accidentally stumbling onto a porn site, too…uhm… i think. i’m just a font of reliable info. :p

in any event, i'm not even sure it matters how old the boys were. if they can't get him on a legality, at the very least he's out of office. for the damage he's done to his own party, i'm sure they'll have him blackballed permanently. i don't think he deserves the needle but i didn’t think lil was being literal there...could be wrong though.

[jseal]

... i think the adam walsh act (a section of it co-sponsored in part by foley :rolleyes2) made it illegal, a felony in fact, to solicit a minor for sex over the internet...
wyndhy,

If true, an entertaining resolution, no? :)

[Oldfart]

Bastard didn't shoot himself before he did the damage, damn shame.

[Scarecrow]

But did he actualy solicit a minor for sex? Or was he just graffic in his IMs. There is a fine point of law there. Of all the parts and pieces I have hear or seen of the IMs there was no solicitation.

[Lilith]

Scarecrow,
You read those IMs and don't think he did anything wrong?

[jseal]

Wrong or Criminal? Is there a difference?

[Lilith]

Is your name Scarecrow?

[jseal]

WildIrish,

It was not my intent to leave you with an impression that I condone criminal behavior. To the extent that I have, my poor use of English is probably to blame. My relatively blasé attitude towards our elected officials may also contribute to that impression, although I have posted more than once my satisfaction that Mr. Foley’s IM adventures are now over.

The part I find bemusing is the seething, vitriolic hatred expressed by some, the extraordinary claims made, and the astonishing ideas of retribution. It seems to me to be so utterly wasteful. I am reminded of the fulminations towards President Clinton a few years ago. It seems so disproportionate.

You, I, Cheyanne, and all normal people are upset, disappointed and angered when we learn about theft, fraud, or any abuse of power. I have tried to suggest in my previous posts that there are two basic ways to replace elected officials: by voting and by prosecution. Most are replaced by votes.

I guess I’m asking why people expect what they do from politicians. Is it because we invest so much of our hopes in them? It seems to me that if we really thought so little of them as some claim, we wouldn’t be as angry or upset as I read. I remember being embarrassed when President Clinton’s behavior towards women was documented. I voted for him, and I felt that he let me down. But at the same time he was in most ways an active, effective Chief Executive, so why did I, along with many others, have such a difficult time with his extra-marital affairs?

[Scarecrow]

All I have seen are parts of them. All I am sayings is let the truth come out, do not take the word of the talking heads on the boob tube. If he is quilty I will be the first one in line to hang him. But there has been no crime proven as of yet.

[Lilith]

I've not seen TV news in weeks. I barely have time for my favorite shows. I read the IMs. That was all I needed.

[Scarecrow]

he still has not had his day in court.

[Lilith]

Do I need a court verdict to tell me what he did was wrong? Do you?

[Scarecrow]

No the courts are not always right.

[scotzoidman]

Any truth to the rumor that when confronted with the allegations, Rep. Foley promised his collegues that he'd turn over a new leaf...






















...just as soon as he got to the bottom of this page?

[Lilith]

:spank:

[Oldfart]

Why, was he out on a date?

[jseal]

Gentlefolk,

Now that the President has said he was disappointed (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5405018.stm) that Mr. Foley "would violate the trust of the citizens who placed him in office", I wonder how disappointed he will feel following the elections?

The Democrats have a made to order campaign slogan: “Had enough yet?”.

[Oldfart]

A Republican response, "We can Dubya disappointment".

[jseal]

Perhaps the Pages could sing the refrain...

"We can feel your pain!"

[Oldfart]

From the bottom of their hearts?

[jseal]

... at Mr. Foley's bedside at the "Shanley & Geoghan Institute for Behavioral Disorders".

...but only from a safe distance.

[Oldfart]

from Foley's Bedtime Cinema?

[jseal]

Perhaps he could read them a bedtime story...

[Oldfart]

Snow White and the Bare Threes.

[jseal]

How about the "Tale of Sir Lance a lot"?

[Oldfart]

Little Rude Riding Hood?

[jseal]

Oldfart,

Once he gets out of rehab, he might think about getting a job with Airbus. Their A380 development program seems to be a good fit with his career prospects just now.

[Oldfart]

Yes, it too is a little behind.

Maybe they'll just put him behind Goldilocks.

[jseal]

You know, he might just be able to play that charming character Rumpeledforeskin .

[Oldfart]

Would that make the other the ugly fuckling?

[Aqua]

All I have seen are parts of them. All I am sayings is let the truth come out, do not take the word of the talking heads on the boob tube. If he is quilty I will be the first one in line to hang him. But there has been no crime proven as of yet.
He has denied nothing, resigned, and says he accepts responsibility. That's enough for me, and then there's the IM's to consider on top of that.

[jseal]

... That's enough for me ...
Aqua,

For what?

[jseal]

Oldfart,

For role playing, he could be Dick and his paramour could be Jane?

[Oldfart]

Who killed cock robbing?

[jseal]

Given the age of his IM contacts, perhaps he could see himself as Snow White (now Whine) surrounded by Seven Dwarfs.

[Oldfart]

Happy, sneezy, Grumpy, Poxy. . . .

[jseal]

OOOOooooooooooooooooooo............... :rolleyes:

[Aqua]

Aqua,

For what?
To be 'hung', as Scarecrow put it, though I speak not in the literal sense.

[jseal]

To be 'hung', as Scarecrow put it, though I speak not in the literal sense.
Aqua,

Well, the process certainly seems to be developing that way. Why not wait a bit and see what the investigations bring to light, rather than rush headlong to judgment?

Let the same system that has taken down so many of his peers do the same to Mr. Foley. Keep in mind what Oldfart wrote (http://www.pixies-place.com:81/forums/showpost.php?p=1287014&postcount=68).

[rabbit]

Do you think someone knew?


Well, based on the news reports we've been seeing, it sure does look like it.

[jseal]

rabbit,

A bit dated, I'll admit, but possibly relevant.

http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/03/washington/03media.html&OQ=_rQ3D1&OP=7a94099eQ2F34Gb3znigQ5DnnQ5Ej3jhhQ5B3fh3hx34Q27gQ24eQ3AJQ5EnQ3A3hxIGzeQ27)Q24Q5EIv

[Oldfart]

Or was it the pages who were dated?

[jseal]

...after he browsed through them?

[Oldfart]

Are they now out-dated?

[jseal]

Well, like the link above, they'd be full of...






















































stuff about Mr. Foley

[Oldfart]

Well, Foley stuff, anyway.

"Come along young Foley, time to be asleep."

"But sir, I've only a couple of pages to go."

[jseal]

"Tend to them later! It will give you something to look forward to."

[Oldfart]

But it only takes a few moments to turn a page.

[jseal]

"True, true. But you know, it can take a many years to fully realise the possibilities you can find in one."

[dicksbro]

Isn't the hypocrisy interesting. Foley is caught and resigns the same day for sending an IM ... AND HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN! But, Gary Stud has sex with a minor and it's excused and he's re-elected, Kennedy causes the death of a gril and sits there acting smug and pompous, Clinton has sex ... oops oral sex isn't sex ... with a young lady and it's okay, Mel Brittle has a similar problem ... but, they're of the other party ... so, I guess that makes the difference. :rolleyes2 What a country. To me, scum is scum regardless of the party.

[WildIrish]

To me, scum is scum regardless of the party.

:withstupi
Again I say, "I'm sick of people not doing the right thing."

[PantyFanatic]

I'm even MORE concerned about what they are NOT doing. :mad:















.................. Their JOB :banghead:

[jseal]

PantyFanatic,

The sexual peccadilloes do not prevent them from doing their job. They are either competent or incompetent regardless of who their sexual partners are.

WildIrish has it right; they just should not behave that way.

[jseal]

Oldfart,

Is it true that Mr. Foley has been cast in the lead role of the film version of the Grimms' Fairy Tale “The Three Little Men in the Woods”?

[Oldfart]

It obviously has nothing to do with the little man in the boat.

[jseal]

Gentlefolk,

Taking dicksbro’s comments above and running with them (sorry ‘bout ‘dat sir :D ), how about a new national slogan ”The US of A – Leaders in World Entertainment!" ?

[Oldfart]

That's Entertainment!

I don't know about Bread and Circuses, but he's found a use for the buns.

[dicksbro]

Gentlefolk,

Taking dicksbro’s comments above and running with them (sorry ‘bout ‘dat sir :D ), how about a new national slogan ”The US of A – Leaders in World Entertainment!" ?

LOL! That's good. ;)

[jseal]

Well, even if we can not learn from our history, at least we can let it entertain us. :)

[Oldfart]

Ladies and Gennelmen, presenting for your mild amusement . .

[jseal]

Oldfart,

Mild? :rofl:

If human behavior is mild entertainment, then engrossing, vivid, or lurid entertainment must be must be breath-taking events!

If you want entertainment, just browse the threads here for an amusing sample.

[Oldfart]

Damn, isn't irony ironic, jseal.