Caught between a rock & a hard place

[BigBear57]

Perhaps somebody here can help me understand a situation I see. For the life of me I can't. I have a female friend who asked me some time ago if I knew of any houses for rent and I introduced her to someone who had several available units. During the discussion about the need to find another place to live my friend (I'll call her "D" for simplicity) confided in me she was having some trouble with her "roomate". Well, in the last few weeks I've seen D and she's been distant. Once a couple of weeks ago she was scraped up and limping. She said her roomate had shoved her down (yes it's a guy) and finally yesterday I saw D and she was sporting a black eye. I've asked if she needed help and all I get is "No, no I'll handle it" Now, I'm going nuts here. I'm torn between finding the guy and ripping his head off and just turning my head. I mean, D doesn't want help but it seems obvious she's overmatched. I'm not involved with D but I find myself worrying over this daily. Men who hit women rarely stop without help and women who stay in it usually get hurt progressively worse. How do I proceed? I'm barely even acquainted with D but damn, I can't handle seeing anybody put through such crap.

[GingerV]

Stories like this make me cringe. Partly because I wish I knew a way to fix them, but every time I've been close to one I've been reminded that you can't heal someone who's insisting on being sick. The reasons why women stay with abusive men are many and complicated, and inevitably nonsensical to those of us on the outside. I don't understand it on a visceral level, at best I can intellectualize it a bit.

But that's not the point. You want to know what you can do, and I hope to heavens someone behind me comes up with a better answer than mine. Because I don't really think there's much more that you can do. You have to stay the hell away from him, getting yourself arrested for assault doesn't help...and odds are he'll take it out on D first chance he gets. She has to be the solution, as much as anyony can be I think. You've offered to help...keep offering. Don't pretend you don't see it, don't let her get away with pretending no-one else knows. You can try talking to her, if you want...depedning on who she is it might be either harder or easier to take from an acquintance. But until she's ready to take steps away from the creature she's living with...you can't help her. You can support her when she does make the move if you want...you can let her know that support is available to her when she wants it. You can't do anything else, I don't think.

Mind you, it's easier for me to say...not having to watch the problem degrade. And I know full well that if D was one of my sisters, I'd want to be on a plane tomorrow and buying a large bat on my way to town....regardless of all my advice to hold back. But as far as 2cents goes in this situation, I can tell you I think you're doing as much as you can do. She's blessed that someone around her is willing to do that much, not everyone cares enough to notice. You're one of the good guys.

Fingers crossed that she gets the strength before it gets much worse.

[jennaflower]

(((Hugs)))

Being your friend.. and knowing you as I do... I am certain that this is tearing you up inside. I also know that you have no doubt made yourself available to her... and she knows that... that alone will make all the difference. Just continue to let her know that..

I HIGHLY suggest that you resist your urge to throttle him.. tho that is exactly what he deserves, it will be "D" that will ultimately pay the price and get the brunt of his retaliation. NOT to mention that you going to jail wouldn't serve a purpose (especially for M & E).

Have you considered calling a crisis hotline in your area... to ask for their suggestions? That may be the best place to start... if nothing else they will be able to give you tips on how to handle this situation..

HUGS..

[BigBear57]

Ginger, thanks for the thoughts. Somehow I knew that's about where it stands. Jenna believe me I've thought about the presonal repurcussions as well but if I got in trouble over this I think M & E would not only understand but support my decision... they like D too. I think the thing that gets me is that I've figured out it's a guy she works with and he's been chummy with me. Now I can see he's feeling me out to see if she's told me anything. That just infuriates me even more. I caqn just see her telling me I'm an animal for hurting him and rushing to his side to comfort him. Been there, done that.. got the hat and tee shirt. Sometimes I wish I could just take this caring heart of mine and toss it in the trash.

[Steph]

The fact that she's looking for a new place is positive. Is she looking for herself alone?

Do you have any friends in common with her you can talk to about the situation?

[BigBear57]

Steph I don't really know any of her friends and she has kids. I think she wants her elder kids to stay with her and he won't go for it. Probably because they're old enough to know he's a jerk and don't mind telling him. (speculation) I'll check with some of her coworkers at some point and see what I can find out but I'm betting they're all hush hush because of his presence and not wanting to make it worse on her.

[Lilith]

BigBear57~

I am in a similar situation. I can only say that I just keep showing her the way out and keep encouraging her to do it. I think it helps that in my state if you allow your children to witness abuse on a regular basis, it's considered abuse, and you can have your children removed from the home. It's a threat that scares her but she hates herself so much, she feels she deserves the abuse. It's a fucking train wreck and all you can do is try to offer support and guidance on getting out and love them when they are wounded.

[BigBear57]

Actually the trainwreck will be if I ever actually see any abuse. Surely though he's smart enough to know that. Thanks for your thoughts Lil, I knew you'd be along with something to add. Thanks to you too Steph. Answers are as few as hen's teeth but it's good to have friend's support.

[fzzy]

BigBear you are a kind and giving man .... undoubtedly why she was able to confide in you in the first place .... but that was probably a rare moment in her life and is why she's trying to steer clear of you .... it's hard to know that you are in a bad situation (that you are choosing to stay in) and that someone else knows about it .... however, I can guarantee that others know, he's not made it possible for her to cover up those wounds! So, don't let her off the hook, let her see that you are around, when you get the chance let her know that you will be there if she decides to change her situation, remind her that kids who see abuse often become abusers themselves ...

and take a few minutes to find out what resources are available to her locally .. a women's shelter would know them, just ask for the generic info, that alone will come in handy if she does decide to leave and comes to you .... if that happens, it will likely be fast and you will want her out from you protection as quickly as possible, not because you wouldn't do a good job, but because he'll come looking and you will be high on that list - she needs to be in anonymous protection as quickly as possible if she is to have any chance of getting out from under this situation. Best of luck!

[imaginewithme]

I wish I could say something to help you ease your mind, but I don't know what it is. You are being a good friend and if you continue to be available for her when she needs you, then that's the greatest thing ever. Like they said above, she's looking to get out, so yes that's a start. I'll never understand how someone can be with a "lover" who hurts them, but I haven't been in their situation, so I can't judge.

You are doing the best for her...being her friend. I wish I could do more for you tho.

Hugs!

[BigBear57]

Fzzy, thanks for the support. I've thought of a few places of refuge if the need arises. As for his finding me, hell I hope he tries.
imaginewithme, thanks too. Just knowing you care makes me smile.

[flutelady]

Big Bear... You're right, it's awful to have to watch someone who seemingly is not dealing with an issue such as this. It makes you feel completely helpless and impotent. I think the ladies who have posted ahead of me were all right on the mark... all you can do for her is to not let her hide from you, and be as supportive as you can. Keep offering to help her, offer suggestions as to what you would be willing to do as her friend to help her out. Let her know you won't abandon her. And whatever you do, don't do anything to get yourself thrown into jail! He most certainly WILL take it out on her if you confront him physically.

I think tho, that it's also very important for you to come to some kind of terms within yourself. Of course, one can never "feel ok" about someone else who is suffering needlessly, but you have to be careful that it doesn't chip more away from you than it must. I have learned, painfully and frustratingly, that despite the best and most caring efforts of friends... you can not force anyone to accept your help. You can just be there if and when they're ready to allow you to reach out to them.

Best of luck to you... and to her.

[BigBear57]

Thank You Flutelady, certainly you're all right. Truthfully each of you echos the thoughts in my own mind. It's just one of those things I wish I could fix with a good whoopin'. Too bad it's not so simple.

[darogle]

Tell her to go to 1) the police. This is assault (domestic assualt at that, even if it is just a roommate), and the guy should be dealt with accordingly. And 2) her present landlord. There is no reason for her to move, and every reason for this prick to be thrown off his lease. If the landlord doesn't act, she has legal grounds against him. Then give her the number to your local domestic abuse hotline. She should take advantage to every resource afforded to her, she'll need it.

[BigBear57]

D man I think everybody around has told her to call the cops and if I'm not mistaken he's the landlord as in he owns the residence in question. As for Hotline assistance, the closest help is an hour away and she's just plain scared and too proud to reach it seems. I appreciate the thoughts though.

[kathy1]

Here's a few words from someone who's been on that side of the fence....emotional abuse, not physical fortuanately, but the wounds of that can go just as deep..... BigBear, I bet if you asked any woman who got out of a situation like that, you'd find most of em with the same answer as mine....which is, I have no idea why I stayed and put up with it....in some weird way, the abusee begins to get brain-washed into actually believing that crap is necessary somehow....doesn't make sense, i know......there's also the issue of shame....even before i got out....I was deeply ashamed to let others know what was happening to me.....that somehow what HE did reflected badly on me...again, doesn't make sense, i know...... the abuse creates some wayyyyyy unrealistic self-esteem issues and alot of women begin to believe that what they get, they deserve......trust me, being told daily that you're a piece of shit and nobody else would want a piece of shit, well, that really does fuck up your head after awhile......then there's the oh so loving i'm sorry's afterward.....and that is the place i think the most damage is done....i don't know for sure but i do wonder if like pavlov's dog who salivated at the ringing of a bell, we abusees begin to associate the loving with the abuse in a warped way. (i.e. we want the love, crave the love, but the only way to get it is by going thru the abuse.....again, doesn't make sense).

As for how to fix it ...YOU can't.....only she can.....as the others here have said, continue to be a real friend to her.....offer what you can in the way of loving support for her ordeal.....continue to tell her to get out and to seek help.....tell her as often as you can that SHE DOES NOT DESERVE THIS AND THAT SHE DESERVES BETTER....say that often and say it loud.....i wish i had an answer as to what woke me up.....and like your friend who has you, i had a friend (the only person who knew what i lived with) who watched for 10 years or more....who stood just as helplessly by....but he never once abandoned me and i'm quite sure that by his remaining such a loyal and good friend throughout, he played a major part in my waking up..... remember, we abusees tend to think we don't deserve anything good....let her see you as good and that no matter what, you will be her friend.....that one small gesture is a mountain of love to us. Good Luck.

Just thought I'd say that after seeing how all of this has affected you, I'm gonna call my friend later and make sure he knows how much i appreciate him.

[BigBear57]

Kathy thanks for the insight. In some odd way I sort of understand that. My Dad was involved in AA for several years and through some of the talks we had I gathered some pretty useful insight about similar situations. Even with some slight undertstanding it wrenches me to be so useless. I'll be there for her in a minute. I gave her my phone number and told her just call if you need help. I just hope she sees the light soon.

[jennaflower]

BigBear57....

I know that M&E would understand.. that isn't what I meant.. they would understand.. and no doubt be proud of you for standing up for someone in trouble.. BUT.. just because they would understand and be proud.. wouldn't mean that they wouldn't be upset... afterall.. no child wants to feel that their parent is in danger... and lets face it... you would be... if this guy will hit a woman... there is no telling what he is capable of...

I know that you will use caution... not only for your sake.. but for "D's" sake too... you have given her every possible out that you can... it is up to her to make the move.. you can't do it for her... all you can do is extend your hand of friendship.. and hope and pray that she reaches for you...

Hugs..

[Grumble]

Yes it is an awful situation and it is so hard looking from the outside with no way of altering anything.

I can add nothing than has already been said about the situation.

What I can say is that you are a caring and decent man and I am proud to call you a friend.

Take care mate

[GingerV]

*Ginger reads this thread, gets through Grumble's post, and wanders away shaking her head muttering something that sounds a lot like "damn, I love this place"*

[boilergirl1]

there is hardly ever an easy answer to violence and your situation is at once hard and endearing to those of us who have been there...i too was once the party being beat upon and as it's been said couldn't tell you exactly why i stayed..i can tell why i left was because i truly felt that if i stayed even one moment longer that i would die it took along time to realize that if i "made him hit me" that i could make him not when i did i realized that anyone who truly loved me would never ever hurt me in such a profound and damaging way like the others i encourage you to just be there for her as it is the one thing that she may have to cling to in the way of hope...your steadiness and friendship will be in much use when she does finally leave and these are the most valuable things in life ...one or two true friends and their ability to be there when you need them the most strangly enough it was a total stranger who helped to get me out of my situation but it was my friends who helped me to do the healing ...
good luck and stay the course and of course Soft Thoughts boilergirl

[GingerV]

Two chits for hugs are going out to Boilergirl1 and Kathy1....glad you both found what you needed to get out and get safe.

[huntersgirl]

I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said. So I will just add my support! I will be thinking about you. :)

[Vullkan]

I have a very special friend who is a lady and thank God she doesn't have to endure anything like this. But if she was in "D" situation, there is no doubt my response.

This man would not be healthy for long. I simply would tell this person that the Cops can't keep me locked up long enough to keep me from having to reteach the lesson if needed--just make sure the first lesson was well taught.

But I know this answer will not go over very well with others here and I am sorry if it offends. But regardless of the costs even the friendship, I would smash this individual insuch a fassion that long would he remember it and wence.

My sister's boyfriend dared to raise his hand to her once. Eventhough it took a long time for my sister to forgive me for getting involved, her boyfriend hasn't dared to try it again.

I wish in this world that understanding and reason can solve all problems but sadly, there are those individuals that understand brut force.

[kathy1]

I, for one, am not offended by what you say, Vullkan. It's nice to see someone who cares so deeply and loves so fiercely and selflessly.

[BigBear57]

Friends, thanks for the outpouring of concern. I hope you know you give me strength. Vulkan, I too inititally wanted to cave this idiot's head in and damn the consequences. Alas such a response could possibly strengthen his hold. As I'd said earlier, who's to say she wouldn't rush to his side and nurse him back to health so he could resume the abuse? I'm sure the best thing to do is wait it out and try to offer her sound advice and help whenever she's ready.

[imaginewithme]

I hope things went a bit better today!!!! HUGS

[flutelady]

Vullkan.... I understand completely what you said. If anyone was to hurt someone I love, I'd want to make them pay, and pay dearly. Truth be told, if the asshole is going to get beat up, let it be to within an inch of his life, and let it scare him shitless.

I know I could never do such a thing, but I could want it with ever fiber of my being.

[Vullkan]

thank you all for understanding my medeval solution.

Mr ...Bear:

My sister nursed him back her boyfriend back to health after he got out of the hospital--but since then things have be more or less fine. Personally I hate violence and feel sick for a long time afterword. Yet still it is a sad reality that some men only understand that a bigger meaner men are out there.

When it comes to family and friends...well sadly my angue isn't something worth seeing. That is something I wish I simply could change.

[BigBear57]

Well I'll be damned. She did IT! She moved out on the guy. Now I just hope she does well enough to get by better own her own without looking back. Just thought I'd let Y'all in on the happy news. :)

[flutelady]

Hey BigBear, that's fantastic news! I know that with the support of friends like you, she'll find the strength and determination to make it on her own and to not return to the abusive relationship. She's a lucky lady to have you on her side. Hugs for you both.

[BigBear57]

Thanks FluteLady, I didn't get the news from her but from a coworker who tells me she was in the same situation and she's moved out too! It must've been an independance weekend. I talked to D last week and gave her my cell #, told her if she ever needed anything.. don't hesitate to call. I saw her a couple of days after and she smiled and told me she still has the number so maybe just maybe she's gonna make a go of it. In any event, I'm proud she's done it.

[kathy1]

I wish you could see how big I'm smilin'

[huntersgirl]

Glad to hear things are looking up for you and your friend!

[Grumble]

Just read this Big Bear :) I am so pleased for her and that you will be able to feel easier now.

[dicksbro]

I also just read this, Big Bear, and am also pleased for her. I must tell you your concern for her is very admirable. God bless you. We'll keep her and her co-worker in our prayers.

[BigBear57]

Just had to update things a bit here. I haven't seen or heard from Dee untill just a few minutes ago and of all the sights to see while I was in WalMart shopping. I ran into and old buddy and we were swapping stories I happen to notice a familiar smile coming my way. Yep, haven't seen her in ages and here comes Dee outta the back of the store. She walked up and hugged me(1st time ever) She said she'd been working late nights and hadn't been around. She's in her own place, has things all smoothed out and looks like she's on top of life these days. I can see a difference in the glow she gives off. She seems happy and confident. I can't tell you how much seeing her like this has lifted my spirits. It's sure good to see some things work out given time. Just wanted to make a report and thank you folks for your input, support and prayers.

[sodaklostsoul]

Just saw this thread.....I'm very glad there was a happy ending.

[imaginewithme]

YOu're such a great friend!

[BigBear57]

I take no credit for the success story Hon, but thanks for the compliment. :x:
I'm just so glad to see her happy after all that's happened.

[LixyChick]

Bear...I missed this thread initially, but I've read it all now and I have to say that you melt my heart!

I'm so glad that things have gotten better for "Dee" and that a part of your heart that was aching, is now healed!

I can feel your smiles!

(((((BigBear)))))